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Re: [jboske] Re: xoi'a




la pycyn cusku di'e


<<
> Less than whatever stage we were at before. There is
> no analogy with the integer case here, because there is
> no way to do something "one less time".
>>
? That is, there was a retrograde? The horse whas three-quarters the way to
running a mile and then backed up a furlong? This does not seem to me to be
a useful notion at all (as the example was meant to show). So, I assume you
mean something else, but (God, I get tired of asking this) what?

I get tired of you asking me that too. Maybe we should stop discussing as we only seem to manage to exhaust each other... :)

I meant that the running is lessening. The most obvious interpretation
seems to be that the horse is slowing down, somehow the event is
getting away from a central instance of a horse running. (My example
was {le xirma cu bajra}, not "runs a mile", that was your example.
With "runs a mile" it might indeed suggest backing up, since now
the salient property is the distance travelled rather than the
running itself.)

<<
Any of those, I think. That the horse is running is somehow
becoming less true.
>>
Whoa, Nelly (he said appropriately)! Where did this "less true" line come
in? Before we were talking about making a complete instance of something,
which, aside from processes, is a little hard to figure but worth some
looking at. But what does that have to do with more or less true

Well, one way of not getting up to an instance is by not quite getting to fulfill the truth conditions for full instancehood.

or, worse,
changing truth value toward more or less?

Consider a sheet of paper that starts being white and turns yellow with time. One way of describing this is to say that {le papri cu pelxu} starts as false and becomes more true as time passes. Just one way of looking at it. Then {le papri cu piza'ure'u pelxu} describes one point in this extended process.

The analogy that was working,
albeit tenuously, for a while is broken completely now (barring a quick,
clear save). Let me try what maybe is going on here -- and which works for
actvities and maybe even states, though not with the notion of building a
complete instance. Moment one: horse running full out, truth of "horse
running" in the upper 90's say. Moment two: horse, slacking a bit, so truth
in the 80's somewhere. Moment three: horse surpassing previous performance,
truth within a delta of 100. Now, consider the whole period containing the
three moments: it is a complete occasion of the horse running (as were,
indeed, each of the moments taken singly). What does the long interval get in
the {pi...re'u} system --- it ends better than it began or even than it was
in the middle, as far as the truth goes.

The {pi...re'u} system would not be used to describe the long interval. It only describes one portion of the whole event (much like ZAhOs do). When the truth is falling from the 90's to the 80's we can say {le xirma ca pime'ire'u bajra}, then when it goes from 80's to 100, we say {le xirma ca piza'ure'u bajra}. Just as we say {le xirma ca co'a bajra} when the horse starts to run.

But that is nothing about its being
more or less an instance of horse running -- it is about what kind of horse
running it is an instance of, if anything in this area at all (which I
personally need to be convinced of now).

Different ways of looking at it. You can say that {co'a bajra} is an instance of starting to run, or you can say that it is the start of an instance of running.

<<
I can't get that much detail in. Just {piza'ure'u pelxu} for
yellowing and {pime'ire'u pelxu} for de-yellowing.
>>
But surely these are different processes not more or less complete (or
retrocomplete) instances of the same process (entropy if nothing else counts
here).

It does not describe the whole process. Just one moment/stage of it. The same is true for plain <n>-re'u. It doesn't describe n instances, just the nth one.

mu'o mi'e xorxes



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