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Re: [lojban] Re: [jboske] RE: Anything but tautologies

la adam cusku di'e

> fancu1 = fancu4 always, doesn't it? Aside from {du}, is there
> any other selbri with this curious behaviour?

Actually, I think it's pretty common. Most obviously, the 'mass'
gismu: 'gunma' (x1=x2)

You're right! I had forgotten about this one, which came up in the list some time ago.

and 'girzu' (x1=x3, at least with your
masses-instead-of-sets usage),

{girzu} is another one of those difficult to understand place structures. I'll have to think about this one.

and of course all the PAmei's, when you
use masses as the second place.

Actually, the way I've been using these, the x1 is a "submass" of the x2. {lo remei be loi nanmu} is a pair of men, where {loi nanmu} can be the mass of all men.

Also, I think that 'material' places
end up repeating the x1 of the bridi. If the place structure is 'x1 is
a widget of material x2', isn't the x2 the same as the x1?

Maybe x1 need only be a chunk of x2.

In 'ti
dilnu le jacygapci', 'ti' and 'le jacygapci' refer to the same thing,
don't they? Perhaps you might want to use something like 'ti dilnu
lo'e jacygapci', but even so, I don't think you can forbid the form
which refers to the actual entity.

Of course x1 can be x2 in some cases, that's nothing out of the ordinary, {mi mi kurji}, but the odd cases are when the two places are necessarily for the same argument.

As for 'fancu', I would use the
function in the first place and ignore the fourth, if you want a name
your can still use 'fancu cmene' or 'jaime'e fancu'.

Yes, I think you're right. Fortunately the duplicate is in the last place where it can be safely ignored. (Another possibility might be to postulate that every predicate is cyclical, so that after the last place, places start repeating for the same arguments. So in a predicate with 3 places x4=x1, x5=x2, and so on. This sometimes could simplify the reordering of places.)

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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