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Re: [jboske] Digest Number 160

la nitcion cusku di'e

So this is what X means by quantifiable: there is something one can
start to count with delimited bits of substance and numbers (if one
has decided on a ve memzilfendi --- has aportioned it into bits, and
therefore individuals), there is nothing to start to count with
stuff, it's just stuff. Yes?


The view I held until before this discussion was that in
Lojban we never deal with Substance, always with amounts
of stuff. What constitutes an amount is determined contextually
for amount-of-stuff predicates like djacu, but other than that
they behave like other predicates as far as quantification goes.

I find the idea of using tu'o as inner quantifier to talk
about true Stuff useful. This is not aleph-1 bits of stuff,
it is just undivided stuff as stuff.

>>The bits of substance that I've been talking about (anything from "the
>>top quarter of" to {pi ro}) are, I would claim, extensionally defined
>>notions of substances.
>I agree. You're not really talking about Substance as such but
>a quantifiable derivation ("bits of substance"). That bits
>can physically contain or overlap other bits is not really
>relevant to their quantifiability. Quantifiablility is not
>the same as countability.

And whensover we put a fractional quantifier or divide up anything,
we introduce quantification in somethat that was otherwise just
sludge and unquantified.


OK, I think I see. No chopping, just sludge. Still call that a Kind.

That was my first impression too, but it's not quite right. Human-sludge is different from Mr Human, and a similar but harder to grasp distinction has to apply between Water-sludge and Mr Amount of Water. The difference is that Mr Amount of Water is much more context dependant than Mr Human.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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