Subject: Incidental sumti (was: Re: [lojban] Vocabulary)

From: Elrond <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 14:22:49 +0200 (CEST)

> >I also want to have a discursive
> > ko'a ",incidentally along with A,B,C," cu broda
> >I feel I should use a combination of "noi", "ce" or "le'i", but I just
> >cannot figure out how, nor can see where this is covered in the Book.
> 
> Depends on what you mean by incidentally here. noi is used to subordinate 
> a second selbri which is incidental to the main selbri, but the English 
> word "incidentally" is usually not used to indicate such an incidental 
> claim. Likely it is important that people know that A,B,C also broda, and 
> you are perhaps indicating that this is true, but that it was accidental, 
> unplanned, merely convenient to the story that they happened to do so.

Here is an example:

French, "incidentally along" English, Spanish and German, is a language.
This "incidentally along" is also a "together with", but the fact that "A,
B,C" cu broda, too, is mentioned only as mere *information*. It says,
"hey, by the way, A B and C cu broda, too, if you wanted to know" and
optionally (i.e. if the reader wants it to read it this way, while the
writer didn't actually want to put this meaning in it) also "how
interesting, ko'a is not the only one in its cu broda-ing situation".

> This is a stylistic question, but I would be inclined to use two separate 
> sentences. ko'a broda .iji'a A je B je C go'i
As a corollary to the preceeding explanation, IMHO, a separate bridi
stating that "A B C ji'a cu broda" gives far too much importance to this
"informational" fact, which does not really have any impact on the rest of
the discourse.

My problem here is probably that I need some form of "noi" that adds
incidental, additional sumti to the standard places of a single selbri,
instead of adding incidental selbri to a sumti. A miss in Lojban ? Is
there any operator that could apply a selbri on all the elements of a set
giving most importance to the first element, or anything similar ?

Oh, btw, thank you for the samples of "standards", I think I got the
point. :-)) (u'i uicai?)

co'o mi'e rafael