Subject: krefu etc.

From: "Alfred W. Tueting (Tüting)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:29:04 -0000

Creating a Lojban word for "anniversary" (see my translation {morji
loi critu}), I came across

bavna'ake'udei (balvi+nanca+krefu+djedi: anniversary day)
na'arefydje (nanca+krefu+djedi)
nancake'udei

raising some questions:

1) Is it really correct stating: 

le vi (zi!) djedi cu bavna'ake'udei ... le nu ...

Is it really {bavna'ake'udei}, namely "the day *recurring* (krefu) in
the *future* (balvi), i.e. the day recurring from the past or 
at least the event from the past coming again on this day? Is
{na'arefydje} or {nancake'udei} much better an expression? For IMHO 
I feel the culprit being the word {krefu}.

krefu: x1 (event) is the x3'rd recurrence/repetition of x2 (abstract)

This doesn't seem to represent Lojban logic (but rather a convenient
expression of common thinking), since there is no recurrence 
at all: whether with regard to a certain day nor to an event (e.g.
each turn of the sun around the earth ;-) is a totally new one - 
similar to those preceding, yet not the same).

Why not better create lujvo the way many natural languages (e.g.
Chinese) do: by (openly) using metaphors (and not pretending - 
or even believing - to be "logical" by using "metaphors" like
{krefu}), myself included)?
In German "anniversary day" is "Jahrestag" (= year's day), what seems
to be pretty metaphoric. Would it be very un-Lojbanic to 
simply/loosely call it {nanca djedi} ({nancadei}, {na'adje}? I'd
prefer the 2nd because of its sound. I do not want having maldotco 
expressions, but isn't {nanca+krefu+djedi} (anni+versari+...)
mablylatmo instead?

2) If creating lujvo like those mentioned above, the example in the
lujvo list

bavna'ake'udei/na'anrefydje lenu co'a zgikrnrokenrole kei li cino

doesn't seem to be too convincing with regard to its place order. The
tanru {nanca+krefu+djedi} is ending with {djedi}, hence x2 
should be that of 

djedi: x1 is x2 full days in duration (by standard x3)
(e.g. lo nanca cu djedi li cixamu - o.k.: about)

and the following x3 (event) that x2 (abstract) of {krefu} giving:

x1 is the x2-recurrence-day of x3 (abstract)

(Unlike the x1-place of {krefu}, x1 needs not to be an "event" but
something like {cabdei} etc.

mi'e la .aulun. noi se cinri lenu do jinvi makau