Subject: Re: literalism [was: Re: [lojban] Re: looking at arjlujv.txt

From: "michael helsem" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 21:21:16 GMT

>From: [email-masked]
li'o
><< words that don't mean what they're supposed to mean. >>
>Whence this "supposed"?
li'o

Well, without half trying i pull up CICTI'A for "storm" (i suggest TIMCAI), 
which really means 'undomesticated weather', a concept which may puzzle 
those from cultures where "wild weather" is not a common kenning. Or 
SEZYKARNI for "diary" (i suggest XA'UNRO'A), which seems more appropriate 
for "zine", since a KARNI is something published & distributed in 
bookstores...

li'o
><<this distinction depends on
>having the longer, more accurate forms available for the same meanings.>>
>Whoa! If it has the same meaning, how is it more accurate?

i meant, of course, "more completely descriptive terms for the same 
referent". (i should've written it in lojban.)

li'o
>Would you care to remind us what they are and how they fit in

Tanru are "binary compounds". Kennings are "compound metaphors", often of 
two units & thus deceptively resembling the former. In tanru, the modifying 
gismu limits the scope of the modified, or together they specify the area of 
their overlap. A kenning paints a picture; one term sets the context, the 
other makes a metaphorical substitution that suggests the referent WITHIN 
this context (famous example: "tunafish is 'chicken of the sea'"). A kenning 
is really a kind of naming (hence my ME LA). "Rug rats" does not mean 
LOLTAXFU RATCU & it would be seriously misleading to turn this into a 
lujvo...
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