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[lojban-beginners] Re: (No Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 17:27:26 +0100

cu'u la geib

> li pamoi
> .i xu kakne lenu lo tanru se finti fo la'o gy. pro sumti gy.
> In case that's wrong, here's what I wanted:  Can tanru be made with
pro-sumti?  The particular
> sentence that brought this to mind was, "Hungry, I come to the table."
There're probably better
> ways--which I'd like to see, also--to translate the thought, but I wanted
to know whether tanru
> even can be used with pro-sumti.
> (le mi xagji) means "my hungerer," so what would be "the hungry me"?

The lojban sentence was correct. Strangely enough, many prosumti have rafsi,
enabling the construction of lujvo, but there is no elegant way of making
them into brivla. In this case, it's not necessary, particularly as it's a
strange metaphysics where you view yourself differently depending on the
state you are in : "the hungry me", "the tall me" etc.
Various suggestions:

i mi noi xagji cu klama le jubme
i mi xagji klama le jubme
i mi xagji ke jubme klama
i ca le nu mi xagji kei mi klama le jubme
i va'o le nu mi xagji kei mi klama le jubme
i mi va'o le za'i mi xagji kei klama le jubme
i mi fi'o xagji fe'u klama le jubme (I don't know whether this is very
different from my 2nd suggestion)

<snip, I don't know whether sumti places loop>

> li cimoi
> "A sqare is a rectangle but not vice versa."
> Good Lojban translations & even attempts at similar word order, both

rectangle: kurfa
square : kubli kurfa/ kubykurfa (x1 is a right-angled regular polygon/hedron
of x2 dimensions (def. 2))

the trouble is turning "a square" back into a predicate to work the vice

{lo kubykurfa cu kurfa ijenai lo go'i me le go'i} err ick

the long way of doing this is:

{roda poi kubykurfa zo'u da kurfa ijenai rode poi kurfa zo'u de kubykurfa}==
{roda poi kubykurfa cu kurfa ijenai rode poi kurfa cu kubykurfa}

there may be some way of doing
{all squares (rectangles respectively) are (are not respectively) rectangles
(squares respectivley)}

my favorite:

{le'i kubykurfa cu klesi jenai se klesi le'i kurfa} (ok, that's a kind of
mathematical definition)

<I'll skip on ka vs nu as well you should be able to find some clarification
in http://www.lojban.org/wiki >

> li mumoi
> What's the meaning of "this" in "What's the meaning of this?"?
> Not ti/ta/tu or vi/va/vu, but the recent situation.


> li xamoi
> .i tu'a lo tanru cu cfipu mi leka ce'u zunle ce'u kei .a leka pritu
> tanru feel different from the rest of the language that I know thus far,
because it seems each
> new part of the tanru changes the interpretation of the word that came
> (do spuda) You reply.  (do spuda melbi) You're beautiful at replying.
> In more complicated examples, the listener would initially think the first
word of the tanru was
> the selbri and start interpreting the sumti which he's already heard
according to that word, but
> then wait! there's more, and the sumti would need to be reconsidered.  Oh,
yeah: the question
> was, What's the best way to get the hang of tanru?

This doesn't seem to be a problem (although those who actually have engaged
in lojban conversation could tell you better) and happens in natlangs as

"The boy pushed through the crowd was eight years old"

> Finally, would "selpamoi" etc. or something else be better introductions
for a numbered list?

 mo'o      MAI      section ordinal                           higher-order
utterance ordinal suffix; converts a number to ordinal, usually a
 mai       MAI      sentence ordinal                          utterance
ordinal suffix; converts a number to an ordinal, such as an item or
paragraph number

> ki'e mu'o mi'e geib.

je'e i mi gleki mu'o mi'e greg