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Re: [lojban-beginners] Why do selbri imply place structure?
On 8/19/2016 11:13 AM, collin.damskov@gmail.com wrote:
I don't know a whole lot about lojban, but it seems to me that it would
be difficult to learn simply because each selbri has its own implied
place structures. Is there no way to encode place structure by using a
particle or something without reducing grammatical ambiguity? Why do it
this way instead of something that doesn't require such intense
memorization of place structures? Am I missing something important here?
selbri place structures, which are ideosyncratic to each selbri (with
some patterns among related selbri, and fairly systematic patterns for
selbri compounds)
correspond fairly closely in function if not in nature with
English prepositions, the meaning of each is ideosyncratic to each verb
in which they are attached (with some patterns among related verbs,
although it can be hard to learn and recognize these patterns as part of
learning English), with the complication that any given verb may have
multiple meanings, wherein the preposition changes meaning in a
different context even for the same word.
No matter what method is used, prepositions, place structures, or
something else, there is the need to encode/associate phrases/clauses
with the main predicate/verb/core of the sentence. The variety of
encodings and associations that are needed are inherent to the context
of the sentence, and relatively independent of the language that has to
communicate those associations.
Lojban can attach sumti (phrases) using particles like prepositions, but
for the most useful (those defined by the place structure), the speaker
has the option of doing without. Thus what you are seeing as a weakness
that replaces a system you are comfortable with, it is actually a
strength that adds to what you are comfortable with. But of course the
most common and useful attachings for any given selbri are the ones tied
to the place structure, so beginners rarely see Lojban sentences with
particle tags that correspond to English prepositions.
Now it turns out that English, in addition to prepositions, has for some
words prepositionless attachings that work like place structures. An
easy example is "John gives the book to Mary" or "John gives to Mary the
book", or "John gives Mary the book". The first two have a preposition
attaching the one of the three phrases, and the last one looks like a
Lojban selbri with no particles. So Lojban isn't actually much
different from English for some sentences.
And in English (and most though not all other natural languages), in the
typical sentence, there is no particle attaching the subject to the
verb/predicate, and thus ALL normal English sentences are partially like
Lojban sentences, but only with the first (subject) phrase. And really
it is no harder to learn Lojban place structures (with and without tags)
than the English "phrase-attachment structures" (with or without
prepositions).
lojbab
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