Re: [lojban-beginners] How to say "I see someone talking to you"? Is "be–bei–be'o" construction good for that?

[solpahi <seladwa@gmx.de>]

On 07.01.2017 20:58, r.d.gorbunov@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi everyone,

coi

> I would like to say the following: "I see someone talking to you."
>
> As far as I understand,  ".i mi viska le tavla" means "I see a talker"
> or, in other words, "I see someone talking".

The meaning is closer to "I see the talker(s)", "I see the one(s) who 
talk(s)".

This may seem to imply that you see someone talking, but it actually 
does not. It is possible to see a person who is talking and not see that 
they are talking. In general, {viska lo broda} does not entail {viska lo 
nu broda}. It is the latter, however, that properly expresses your meaning.

   mi viska lo nu su'o da tavla do
   I see the event-of some X talks-to you
   "I see that someone is talking to you."

(btw, {le tavla} for "someone who talks" is slightly off. Instead, {su'o 
tavla} is more appropriate as it literally means "someone who talks" 
(one or more things). In the current case, neither is correct, of 
course, but I felt it was worth pointing out)

> But I want to say a bit
> more. I want to specify that talking is "to you". So, I guess I need to
> use the "be–bei–be'o" construction and I am not sure about that since
> here https://lojban.github.io/cll/5/7/ this construction is used to
> "extend" one of the gismu from a tanru and I want to extend a sumti.
>
> In general I want to be able to say things like: (1) "I see a man
> reading a book", (2) "The man knows a dog walking from home". Is
> "be–bei–be'o" gives a way to say these sentences or I need to use
> something else?

You can use {be} to inject (or "extend") into a selbri additional sumti 
that then become part of the place structure of the newly created selbri.

tavla       : x1 talks to x2 about x3 ...
tavla be do : x1 talks to you about x2 ...

Thus, {lo tavla be do} is an expression that refers to a thing or things 
who talk to you.

The other sentences you mention would require relative clause, though, 
because they contain an additional verb (selbri), namely "reading" and 
"walking". Relative clauses are constructed with {poi} (or {noi}):

   mi viska pa prenu poi ke'a tcidu pa cukta
   I see a person who [the-person] reads a book
   "I see a person who reads a book."

Again this does not mean you see them reading a book, only that you see 
the person. You may know about them reading a book from other sources, 
so if you wanted to express that you see them reading a book, you would say:

   mi viska lo nu pa prenu cu tcidu pa cukta
   I see the event-of a person [predicate] read a book
   "I see someone reading a book."


~~~mi'e la solpa'i

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