[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

[lojban] Re: E-Prime & Lojban



Well of you are right Arnt, although I consider/believe 'consider' and 'believe' be approximate in meaning and intent - any difference is miniscule compared to the difference between 'God is good' and 'I think God act with rightfullness and fairness' and so on.

My own "bearing" on lojban as being a language with "naive realism" as "focus" comes from the fact that predicate logic is its base. E-prime, regardless if it has such goals explicitly stated or not, hinders dogmatism by not being the obvius default as it is in english (etc) now. Dogmatism happens to always be connected to a strong sense of being right, which is a sort of realistic stance.

Mikael Hall

2009/9/11 Arnt Richard Johansen <arj@nvg.org>
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 01:09:22PM +0200, tijlan wrote:
> What do you think of E-Prime?

E-Prime is a variant of English that forbids constructions where the copula verb "to be" is obligatory. Supposedly, this changes communication and possibly also thought by making subjective judgements more overt.

The problem is that the copula in English is a purely superficial part of the grammar, which is almost completely separate from the semantic layer. So merely reformulating sentences without copulas has no bearing on "judgementalness", "Aristotelian essentialism" &c. It is easy to show that this is the case by "translating" the following sentences from http://nobeliefs.com/eprime.htm in a way that conforms to the rules of E-Prime, yet undermines its purpose.

1A. The electron is a wave.
   We consider the electron a wave.
2A. The electron is a particle.
   We consider the electron a particle.
3A. John is lethargic and unhappy.
   John lacks energy and has a bad mood.
4A. John is bright and cheerful.
   John bursts with energy and cheerfulness.
5A. This is the knife the first man used to stab the second man.
   The first man stabbed the second man with this knife.
6A. The car involved in the hit-and-run accident was a blue Ford.
   The driver of a blue Ford hit a person and then drove off.
7A. This is a fascist idea.
   This idea bears all the hallmarks of fascism.
8A. Beethoven is better than Mozart.
   Beethoven's work exceeds that of Mozart in quality.
9A. That is a sexist movie.
   This movie reeks of sexism.
10A. The fetus is a person.
    A fetus becomes a person the moment the sperm enters the egg.

--
Arnt Richard Johansen                                http://arj.nvg.org/
- Hvorfor snakker man engelsk på Internet?
- Har du hørt om minste felles nevner?


To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.




--
"No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical." — Niels Bohr

"There are two kinds of people, those who finish what they start and so on."
— Robert Byrne