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- To: lojban-list
- Subject: logfest 90
- From: wetblu!uunet!cbmvax!snark.uu.net!lojbab
- Date: 10 May 90 02:04:49 EDT (Thu)
this message is a revised an expanded version of an earlier discussion
of logfest that went out on Lojban-list. It is now the draft text of
what I am planning to put into JL12 on Logfest, so pardon any strange wordings
or references to the rest of the JL issue. I'm resending because the
first memo was poorly organized, and in any case didn't reach everybody, due
to some glitch in the network mail system.
In any case, this message is also a welcome to about 20 new people added to
lojban-list based on addresses I've dug out of the files. If you don't want to
be on the list, send a message to email@example.com
If you are on Compuserve, you can send to any address with an @ in it by
prefixing with 'INTERNET:'. Thus, to send to me (Bob LeChevalier), send to
End of intro. I'd like feedback on the Logfest plans and word on who's
planning on coming.
LogFest 90 will be held from Friday thru Monday the
weekend of 15-18 June 1990; most of the planned activities
will be within the weekend proper. The annual meeting of
the Logical Language Group, Inc. is set for Sunday morning,
the 17th, by our bylaws, and is the one absolutely fixed
item for the gathering. All other dates and times discussed
below are subject to change depending on what attendees want
to do and/or talk about. This meeting is for YOU, so make
sure we know what is important to you. Especially let us
know if you can only come for part of the weekend, and have
a particular topic you want to talk about; we'll try to move
things around to fit you in.
From the feedback we've been getting, we're expecting more
people at LogFest this year than in previous years. For the
benefit of our planning, please let us know if you are
coming (or if you 'might be' coming - we don't need ironclad
commitments). There's no penalty for not doing so - we
simply have a smoother, better planned gathering.
We have plenty of sleeping space, especially for those
with sleeping bags and/or tents. Families are welcome,
provided that they have sleeping bags too (there are motels
within a couple of miles, but the DC area isn't cheap); we
also need financial help if we're going to feed families.
Also, if your coming depends on finding transportation to
Washington DC, let us know. There may be someone else
coming from the same place or direction that you can
rideshare with. This is especially likely for the Northeast
corridor, from Boston down to Washington. Be sure to
specify what dates you want to attend, the earliest you can
leave home and the latest you can return home to make ride-
sharing feasible. If you have access to the computer
network, you might also consider posting a notice on lojban-
list, so that others who are thinking 'maybe' will more
likely consider going, with the knowledge of reduced
What will be going on at LogFest? We will have two major
themes this time:
- How can we help more people learn Lojban easier?
- What short term applications for Lojban are worth
We also will have the goal, by the end of the weekend, of
deciding on several last minute proposals regarding the
language and declaring a conditional or unconditional
baseline (freeze) on the grammar.
Now for details.
There will be several things going on simultaneously.
- Some main track discussions, generally related to the
themes above, which Bob will probably be leading or helping
- 1 or 2 computer rooms, with 2-3 MS-DOS machines, Art
Wieners' UNIX machine, and whatever else people bring. Art
and others will usually be in there demonstrating existing
software, and working on new software including the parser.
There will be a little bit of computer talk on the main
track, but we will generally be trying to make it so non-
computer types can understand what is going on.
- Athelstan, and possibly others, will be helping with new
Lojbanists. Athelstan will give mini-lessons at times
scheduled below (if there are people interested then), but
he will also be available impromptu for mini-lessons,
explanations of grammar points, and demonstration of the
flash card technique.
- On occasion throughout the weekend we'll hold short
sessions of all-Lojban conversation - typically a half hour
or less so that non-speakers don't get bored, or frustrated.
These sessions will probably occur in between main
Specific schedules as they stand:
7PM - Athelstan mini-lesson (about 1 hr.), if people present
who haven't been to one
8PM - After the mini-lesson (or starting earlier if there is
none), there will be a discussion of Jim Yorke and Celso
Grebogi's proposal (later in this issue) to have Lojban
image languages using gismu based on single languages to
make them easier to learn. Side issues may include
applications such as teaching Lojban to kids (including
using such teaching to help them learn English better),
and other aspects of making Lojban easier to learn for
people than it currently is. Dr. Yorke will be at the
session, but has schedule constraints that mean that he
can only attend early in the weekend, so the Friday night
schedule is relatively fixed.
Saturday morning - additional discussion about teaching and
learning Lojban, including any leftover discussions from
the night before. I hope to have new textbook lesson
drafts for people to look at and comment on, so here's
your chance to make a difference before the book is
If there is interest, we will start side discussions at that
point on how to organize and lead a class when you don't
know the language yourself. Athelstan and John Hodges will
both be there, and both have done this now. Eric Tiedemann
will, we hope, be there to report on the initial work by
the New York City class. We want to stimulate new class
efforts, even if only 2-3 people are participating.
Athelstan is hoping to launch 2 classes, one in Virginia
and one in Maryland, at LogFest or immediately afterwards.
We are also considering instituting a weekly Lojban
conversation session to start with or shortly after
LogFest (this may end up having to wait until fall -
simply because Athelstan may be spread too thin.)
1PM - Another Lojban min-lesson, if there is demand.
Saturday afternoon will include a discussion of voice
recognition, the lojban parser, AI work and various other
computer processing projects. Art Wieners will tell about
his fairly extensive efforts, including word recognition
and analysis, as well as Artificial Intelligence
applications for Lojban. Unfortunately, Jeff Taylor, who
has been leading the parser efforts, is having to drop out
of Lojban work for a while, and won't be coming. We will
be looking for new parser helpers, and there may be
technical side-discussions. Eric Raymond, host of lojban-
list, has been working on porting LogFlash to Unix, and
will talk about what he's done. Nora and I will talk about
planned new software and enhancements, and we'll accept
proposals for others. All software (and other products)
will be available for demonstration, examination, and (of
course) purchase. (Oh, yes; and everybody in the world
will be trying to convince Bob and Nora to switch from MS-
DOS to UNIX; Good luck!)
Saturday nite - Bob will lead discussions about textbook
plans, dictionary plans, and take suggestions. We'll also
talk about the recent change proposals to the language.
Non-controversial ones will get a quick decision; the rest
will be deferred for further discussion on Sunday or later
- all attendees have a vote.
Sunday morning is the la lojbangirz. business meeting.
Expect businessy things. Most people tend to sleep in
late on Sunday morning after two late nights, which is why
we're putting this at a low ebb time. We hope to finish
the meeting by noon. The agenda is not yet known. Topics
typically include finances, plans and priorities. All
attendees are welcome to participate informally.
Sunday afternoon, we will discuss gismu list change
proposals, hopefully briefly, and make a group decision on
whether we are ready to baseline the Lojban grammar. If
so, the language is DONE!!!! Practically speaking, I
expect a conditional baseline, possibly excluding MEX, and
possibly waiting either for the parser or the textbook to
be completed or both, before it becomes a full freeze.
(More on this below, under R & D).
around 3PM? - A final scheduled mini-lesson; this time an
advanced lesson for people who have already had the basic
mini-lesson. This may continue into a longer tutorial, if
there is demand, but will otherwise last an hour.
Sunday nite and Monday will be left unscheduled for whatever
comes up - invariably something runs overtime. Besides,
many out-of-towners will have left by then, though pc and
probably Art Wieners will still be here. pc and family
plan to arrive on Wednesday the 13th. Art usually comes
for a full week, but his dates are not yet known.
Other activities will be dependent on demand:
Some have suggested a group effort to write or translate
something, perhaps a short essay reporting on LogFest. We
have an ancient back burner project to update Jim Carter's
story in old Loglan to current Lojban, and a similar
effort involving a old story by Bob Chassell. These are
non-trivial and will not be finished in a weekend, but are
easier than composing raw text. Carter's work, in
particular, will take a fair amount of tanru and lujvo re-
making; he used a lot of Institute Loglan words that are
based on no longer acceptable tanru. In addition, the
current gismu list has more expressive power than earlier
There will be other side discussions as people desire.
Speak up now with your favorite topic. Some possibilities
include lujvo making, and good tanru for various words,
We will be having Lojban conversation as mentioned above,
possibly with on longer session towards the end (when more
people feel comfortable with trying to say things) if
there is demand for it. To keep costs down, we need
people to bring their own word lists, etc., though we'll
have inventory if needed.
If you are thinking about ordering stuff, it saves us
postage to give it to there and let you carry it home.
But we need to have a good number of people pay for stuff
there in order to do this. We will probably have no money
in the bank after LogFest to restock inventory, except
what we collect at the meeting.
We generally put up a good spread of food to keep people
from going hungry We're asking for contributions of $5-15
per day towards costs (and preferably more, if you can
help), but there is no mandatory admission charge. If we
don't get enough volunteer cash flow, this will be the last
year of voluntary giving. To pay for LogFest, we will
probably need more than the $600 spent last year, depending
on attendance, which we expect to be double or more. (That
$600 doesn't include all costs, but only those paid by la
lojbangirz. - it averages out to about $30 per person,
including those who only came for part of the weekend.)
As mentioned above, families are welcome if you bring
sleeping bags and tent or trailer. We'll have at least one
adult and 1 13-year-old non-Lojbanist here for the weekend
so there will probably be some side activities such as
sightseeing in DC or shopping at the malls, or whatever for
disinterested spouses and kids. Let us know if you're bring
extras along so we can plan for food, etc.
We are close to DC's metro system and right off the freeway.
The newsletter will have a detailed map. Any questions,
--lojbab = Bob LeChevalier, president The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA (703)385-0273