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Re: [lojban] Re: CLL and modern Lojban



doi la .guskant.

Thanks for the links. That seems interesting, but I just can't read big Lojban discussions: it took me days (yeah, from time to time, not continuously!) to read and understand 100% of this famous "la .teris."!
My current level is one of the reasons why I'm absolutely not ready to enter any board or committee.

Is there an HTML version somewhere so that everyone can access it without developer tools?

* Paralysis *
So, according to what you say, BPFK is really paralyzed. When you want to rely on someone's work, well, (s)he might simply be overloaded with other tasks and may never answer. It seems that there are no "replacement" guys/gals: if one is not able to perform a task, whatever the reason, then nobody can replace him/her. Do you think so too?

It feels so dramatic to me that you've lost hope. It is exactly what I feared: anyone can do whatever, in whatever direction. That's freedom. That's not wrong in itself. But... nothing more? Ideas create "explosions" and there is no structure at all to make all of this collapse to something better and organized?

You told your efforts were blocked by some people. Were there discussions (I mean enough discussions)? Voting? Enough participants in voting? Enough time for the committee to work on proposals?

* Funds *
As I just told to Gleki : "even if many Lojbanists are enthusiasts, they all need money to live and cannot work for free indefinitely".
You know, some guy on the Facebook group (Сергей Ильинских) asked if "crypto-currency rewards" could be an idea for translations jobs. At first I thought this was not very useful, and surely complex to set up. However, I feel now that the idea behind this (money to encourage people working on Lojban stuff) may be one of the "energy sources" that would change the game. Of course, this has to be very carefully handled! But we may imagine something like periodic small fund raising (donations, crowdfunding, etc.) on one hand, and a system putting clear (and small) objectives and rewards on the other hand. I feel like the idea has to be enhanced and discussed... But don't you think it is worth debating on this? This of course would be only some tools to help, and the current organizations would still be there and help.

* Organizations *
An by the way, this thread highlighted the fact that there are 3 "major" groups down there: LLG, GPFK, and the Coders Group. Even if history may explain why there are three, the current "freezing" status of all may be a signal for changing things. I don't know even 1% of what each did; but FROM AFAR, it seems that all organizations share some common interests, and may perform better together. Of course, merging everyone into a single entity is surely fictional. But they may organize as "subsidiary companies", sharing a purely administrative section with some functional parts (ex: financial as for the previous topic, rule sets, etc.). Do you feel this would be technically possible? And would this be desirable and profitable?

I thought about this overnight (!) and specifically about one rule: as people discuss about language, is it wise to allow discussions to be in Lojban only? Maybe a common rule of requiring a (rough?) translation in another "reference" language would help. Of course, as there are plenty of materials in English out there, it seems logical that this would be English, but that's not mandatory, I guess.

You known, I'm willing to help but I can only help organizing stuff, and spreading the word. Not much more because of my too recent implication.

* [side note] *
Thank you very much for helping me improving my skills.
ki'ecai

la .sykyndyr.


Le lundi 6 novembre 2017 14:41:43 UTC+1, guskant a écrit :

You will find issues for CLL 1.2 here:

https://github.com/lojban/cll/milestone/12

The issues were already discussed by past lojbanists, and Cirko worked on introducing them into the next version of CLL. Gleki asked BPFK members for approval of them, and no one responded:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/bpfk-list/jqVDF5z9LqA

I, as a member of BPFK, am responsible for approving them, but I did not have enough time for that. Even if I have time for that, I can't imagine that I can approve any English texts written by an native English speaker because I'm very poor at English.

You can freely approve them even if you are not a member of BPFK. If you want to do it as a member of BPFK, just post a message in Lojban to "bpfk-list" Google Group at the URL above, saying that you want to be a member, and you will be admitted.



You should find many branches at the github repository above. I have never contributed to the repository for some reasons:

- the repository is governed by "the Lojban Coders' Group". I regard it as a kind of unofficial fans' group. Although the Group owns many official or pre-official contents, the owner(s) and the contributors are not equal to the members of BPFK or LLG. I am a member of BPFK and LLG, and I have never invited as a collaborator or an owner of the group. I once made a small pull request to another repository of the group, but it was ignored for almost one year.

- I made some efforts on bpfk-list to remove grammatical difficulties or important logical defects, but we had always a stubborn defender of the current state. You can find such discussions with no conclusion in the bpfk-list Google Group above. Consequently, I have lost hope in updating CLL, and shifted myself to create a large personal commentary on the whole CLL ver.1.1.



lo'ai fi sa'ai fu le'ai ie pei 
i ji'a e'u lo'ai me'a lu .abu. pa li'u sa'ai li .abu pi'e pa le'ai ie pei


i na'i ma'i mi na'e toldra i po'o .au sajgau do lo xauzma be fi mi

mi'e la guskant

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