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Re: [lojban] Re: CLL and modern Lojban



2017-11-10 15:22 GMT+03:00 <sukender1@gmail.com>:

{.i mi klama} = "I come, I came, I will have come" ? Ambiguous.

Ambiguous? I'd rather say "vague". I mean, for me, is is grammatically perfectly clear, despite no tense is provided.

Similar to your example  
"Sam likes you more that Max."
The link between Max and another noun is underspecified. Context makes clear what you mean.



Right. Or referring by name. When you need precision you add words, similar in Lojban.

Yup. I just told that there is no grammatical mean in French, whereas there are in Lojban. Of course, means may be cumbersome... and that's another point!


Lojban is not by definition free of polysemy.

Sure! But as a conlang with such base rules, polysemy has not the same "level", IMO.

I have no clue what you mean by "level"
 


That's where I agree in regard to French. Lojban and Mandarin Chinese have unambiguous self-segregation morphology provided that communication channel has low noise.

Really? I thought is was not that always the case. Anyway, I often hear, those says, people having much trouble with pronunciation (in French); this generally strongly affects the meaning. There are many famous pairs / paraphony ("et" / "est", "pomme" / "paume", etc.). This makes me think that tiny differences generate more issues.

In French they could. As I once again say I agree in regards to French. Other natural languages are similar to Lojban in self-segregating morphology.

 

 
I know Lojban allows the speaker to be vague, and allows usage of approximations. And it is also NOT a context-free grammar. But there is a huge gap between native languages and Lojban on the topic of ambiguity, IMO.

I hope my sarcastic but serious (ge'exo'o ge'ezo'onai) remarks proved that wrong.

Well, of course, no one can say "Lojban is perfect, everything else is crap". Lojban has issues. That's obvious. But what I mean is that Lojban tends to avoid some common issues in languages. The difference is not "day and night" of course. But I'm still not convinced that the gap is small, or that Lojban is "just another language".

However I must say all your remarks are interesting. Thanks again.

 
I don't know for other conlangs, actually. Thanks for the info ; I'll have a look. Please note I'm NOT trying to "define how Lojban is unique compared to others".


It'd be imo more productive to simply remove from the analysis anything that looks like a conlang (proglangs, Esperanto, gua\spi)

Alright!


Despite that more people speak Abkhaz than Lojban.

Yes. And...? What's the point?

Even if at some theoretical level Lojban is easier to learn no one learns it. It's like one of cryptic proglangs that geeks adore, discuss its pragmatic usefullness but almost no one uses.

Are you saying it's not worth learning Lojban?

I am not.
 
If so, your position is then unclear to me. Or are you saying that despite efforts people still see it as a doomed

I am not.
 
& geek language

I am.
 
(which is a bit what I said about "low notoriety")?


la .sykyndyr.

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