[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

[lojban] Re: gradu





Em domingo, 26 de novembro de 1995 23:27:17 UTC+3, Jorge Llambias escreveu:
> >        x1 is x2 units (default=1) on scale/property x3
> >Unfortunately, I can't find a gismu with that structure.
> He doesn't need the default, and therefore klani has what he needs.

Yes, {klani} is good. Why isn't it worded like all the other
measure-words? And why isn't 1 the default for its x2, like for all the
others?

I now think that the place structure of {gradu} is also good, although
again it is not worded as it should. It belongs with the series:

.....
kilto   x1 is a thousand of x2 in dimension/aspect x3 (default is units)
xecto   x1 is a hundred of x2 in dimension/aspect x3 (default is units)
dekto   x1 is ten of x2 in dimension/aspect x3 (default is units)
gradu   x1 is a unit of x2 in dimension/aspect x3 (default is units)
decti   x1 is a tenth of x2 in dimension/aspect x3 (default is units)
centi   x1 is a hundredth of x2 in dimension/aspect x3 (default is units)
milti   x1 is a thousandth of x2 in dimension/aspect x3 (default is units)


And can you please show how each place of gradu and kilto would be filled according to this view? 

.....

The current wording makes it difficult to see how well it fits there.

> gradu isn't really a generic unit, though it has probably been used as
> such.  It was originally meant to be the category containing the units,
> just as skari contains all the colors.

Yes, the problem seems to be the confusing keywords and that the
definitions are not worded as for other equivalent concepts. {klani}
is the generic unit, so it should be worded as such.

> Now with dikyjvo, I think both skari and gradu have trouble being used
> in lujvo as they were intended (cindu skari would be the color of an
> oak, but should have the generic colr place struture, and not a
> derivative of skari's place structure),

The useful gismu for creating colour-words should have the structure
"x1 has the colour of x2". Then {cindyskari} would indeed mean
"x1 is oak-coloured".

The x3 and x4 of {skari} are a general problem of many gismu. "under
conditions" and "to observer" places should not be part of any gismu.
(Except {vanbi} and {zgana}, of course.)

The x2 of {skari} is hard to understand. What should it be filled with?
A property? What's the difference between {ta skari le ka blanu} and
{ta ckaji le ka blanu}?

If {skari} had the right place structure ("x1 is of the colour of x2")
then {kamska} would mean "x1 is the property of being the colour of x2",
which is what {se skari} presumably means now.

I propose that the place structure of {skari} be changed to "x1 is of
the colour of x2", which is much more useful than the current one.

> and maybe Nick needs to include
> a note about these kinds of words. rango, danlu a nd a few others have
> this problem too.

{danlu} seems to be perfectly normal, and {rango} is pretty standard too.
What is the problem with them?

Jorge

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.