From rwhe@xxxxxxxxxx.xxxx Sun Aug 22 17:34:52 1999 X-Digest-Num: 218 Message-ID: <44114.218.1178.959273825@eGroups.com> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 17:34:52 -0700 From: Ron Hale-Evans From: "Jorge Llambias" > >>From: Ron Hale-Evans >> >> L1. menske : menli :: ji'eske : xadni >> >> L2. .i ke menske tai menli ke'e tai ke ji'eske tai xadni ke'e >> >> L3. .i menske du menli ji'eske >L2 is ungrammatical. The cmavo of selmaho BAI, like {tai}, >can be used to tag a sumti or a selbri, much like tenses. >They don't work as connectives by themselves. You might >say something like: > > zo menske peki'i zo menli zo ji'eske peki'i zo xadni panra > {menske} in relationship to {menli} is parallel to > {ji'eske} in relationship to {xadni}. Thanks. I don't want to talk about the words, though; I want to talk about abstract things. How about this? lo menske peki'i lo menli cu panra lo ji'eske peki'i lo xadni What is "peki'i", BTW? Some kind of compound cmavo? I couldn't find "peki'i", "pek", "pe" or "ki'i" in any wordlist or the Red Book. >>I'm pretty sure L3 is ungrammatical; what's wrong with it? > >It is grammatical, but it doesn't say what you want. >It is a four component tanru. {du} is just another brivla, >like {menske}, {menli} and {ji'eske}. You might say: > > zo menske cu munsi'u lu menli ji'eske li'u > {menske} has the same meaning as {menli ji'eske}. What about this? lo menske cu du lo menli ji'eske pe'a I'm using "pe'a" according to the Red Book. The _online_ Refgram, whose usage I prefer in this instance, would seem to want me to say: lo menske cu du lo pe'a menli ji'eske po'a If anybody's listening (Lojbab? John C.?), I think the latter grammar is more generally useful, since it lets you mark whole tanru or even sentences as figurative, whereas the Red Book _seems_ to imply that you can only mark the previous word. If "pe'a" and "po'a" conflict with "lo", which is veridical, how about this: lo menske cu du pe'a lo menli ji'eske po'a Again, something you can't do with "pe'a" alone. --Ron -- Ron Hale-Evans: rwhe@apocalypse.org & http://www.apocalypse.org/~rwhe/ Center for Ludic Synergy & "Kennexions" Glass Bead Game & Hexagram-8 I Ching Mailing List & State-Specific Sciences List & Positive Revolution FAQ