From lojbab@xxxxxx.xxxx Wed Aug 25 11:08:21 1999 X-Digest-Num: 221 Message-ID: <44114.221.1206.959273825@eGroups.com> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:08:21 -0400 From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" From: Pycyn@aol.com >In logic, the article-like objects function like quantifiers, with variables. > The stock form is "the x such that Fx." da poi da broda or da voi da broda for the non-veridical "the" you can use ke'a in place of da after the relative clause operator You can also insert a prenex with scope only over the relative clause for handling the next problem: > The corresponding Lojban would be >"le da da broda" then (maybe with a separator between the das). But Lojban, >of course, does not exactly replicate this version but drops the das >altogether, "le broda." With more complicated predicates, the variable >becomes more important, "the x such that Fyx" can be handled in Lojban with >conversion, "le se broda y," say. da poi de broda da where you could localize de or globalize it: da de zo'u da poi de broda da or da zo'u da poi de zo'u de broda da > But what about genuine and functioning >complexity? Though there are several intervening levels of complexity, the >one I am now working with and can not make any headway on is >"the x such that it is not possible that someone conceive that there is a y >greater than x" conversions and collapsed or permuted tanru cannot be used >here as the scopes of the various operators (possibility, conception, >quantifiers) are crucial in the argument this leads up to. Suggestions (and, >best of all, citations from the Red Book on how to do it legally) would be >most welcome. da poi node zo'u de zmadu da x such that for no y: y is greater than x We should have sufficient flexibility in scope specification at the different levels of prenex, and with nearly the full range of sentence structure possible within a relative clause, all of the quantifiers and operators should be usable with no particular trouble. Clearly the chapter on relative clauses - the whole chapter, is relevant to the problem. lojbab >pc > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >ATTENTION ONElist MEMBERS: Get your ONElist news! >Join our MEMBER NEWSLETTER here: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com ---- lojbab ***NOTE NEW ADDRESS*** lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: see Lojban WWW Server: href=" http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/ " Order _The Complete Lojban Language_ - see our Web pages or ask me.