From nellardo@xxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) Sat Oct 30 18:04:45 1999
X-Digest-Num: 271
Message-ID: <44114.271.1504.959273825@eGroups.com>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 21:04:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: nellardo@xxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Subject: Re: lojban relationship words....

la gio .kuot. reciproc@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca .kuot. pu ciska di'e:
> la brukca,yr. pu ciska di'e
> 
> > Friends of mine have found a lack of English words for different kinds 
> > of relationships - I think I mentioned this before. So in the spirit
> > of contributing, I'm posting some.
> > 
> > Please, for commentary/correction/whatever:
> [...]
> > mi pendo le mi glependo - "my fuckbuddy is my friend."
> > mi pamypendo - "I have a loving friend." (or more than one - not
> > specific)

> More accurately, "I'm my fuckbuddy's friend",

Yep - I translated it to more idiomatic English - maybe I should have
used: 

le mi glependo cu pendo mi
mi se pendo le mi glependo

which, come to think of it, are almost tautologies (switching to "lo"
and they would be). But would I describe someone as "le pendo goi ko'a"
if it wasn't the case that "ko'a pendo mi"?

> and "I am a loving
> friend", 

Yep.

> not that it particularly makes a difference in most contexts--but
> "pendo" could theoretically also cover someone acting like your friend 
> even though you hate their guts.

So question: If each lojban gismu has only one definition, which is
the definition for "pendo"?

x1 is a friend to x2

or 

x1 acts like a friend to x2

The def I have in front of me says

x1 is|acts like a friend to x2

but it seems to me to be covering two distinctly different truth
statements - one is about a property (being a friend) while the other
is about behavior (acting like a friend, whether you are or not). Or
is pendo inclusive? With abstraction allowing for more specificity?
Like "ka pendo" for the "is" version?

> > ko malype'o mi - Fuck me, dammit
> > ko malypendo mi - [same]
> Not malgletu?

D'oh!

> no'i Both of those would be better expressed using attitudinals, e.g.
> 
> le'o ro'u ko gletu mi
> [aggresive] [sexual] Fuck me!

But I see that as the speaker being aggressive, whereas "Fuck me!" (in 
a sexual situation) is usually construed as a more submissive request
- demanding that something obscene be done to the speaker. And this
version doesn't have the "dirtiness" of "malgletu" - "gletu" is more
neutral, e.g., "copulate". It isn't necessarily "dirty talk."

> or
> 
> .o'onai ko .ionai gletu mi
> [anger] [you-imperative] [disrespect] fuck me
> Fuck me, you whore!

Yes, but again, it could also mean:

Argh! You trash, copulate with me.

or more "idiomatically":
Argh! Have sex with me, you trash!

I think .ionairo'u would be more of the sense of "whore," or maybe
"slut" or "dick," or somesuch (but no particular gender bias anywhere
- a nice change).

> Also, don't go ovorboard with the y-hyphen; as far as I know, "pampendo",
> "cinprami", etc. are fine without it.

Arg - yeah, I had the "no voiced/non-voiced pairs" lodged in my
brain. Of course, I'm using exactly the letters that can ignore
that.....



co'o mi'e brukcr. (okay, so I haven't settled on the cmene I like best 
yet :-)

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