From jjllambias@hotmail.com Sun Aug 25 07:49:59 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 25 Aug 2002 14:49:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 34404 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2002 14:49:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Aug 2002 14:49:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.127) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Aug 2002 14:49:58 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 25 Aug 2002 07:49:58 -0700 Received: from 200.69.6.57 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 25 Aug 2002 14:49:58 GMT To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [lojban] mlana Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 14:49:58 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Aug 2002 14:49:58.0644 (UTC) FILETIME=[AEF3F340:01C24C46] From: "Jorge Llambias" X-Originating-IP: [200.69.6.57] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=6071566 X-Yahoo-Profile: jjllambias2000 >From: "Robert J. Chassell" >If I understand my anthropology and metaphorical reasoning correctly, >in Anglophone culture, indeed, in the cultures of all Indo European >language speakers, the side of an object that is conventionally its >`front' is its `face'. If an object is symmetrical in a manner that >produces two or more possible `faces', like a cube, then the side that >I can see is its face. Lojban gets that meaning backwards with {mi} in the reference place: {zunle le kubli mi} is "to the left of the cube as it faces me", which we would say in English as "to the right of the cube". {zunle le kubli le bolci} is "left of the cube as it faces the ball", which is more neutral. For objects that already have an inherent front, the x3 is not really a reference frame, but just additional information about the orientation of x2. If I say {zunle la djan mi} it means "to the left of John, who happens to be facing me". The fact that John faces me does not really add anything to the location of x1. So, the Lojban system is odd, at least with respect to what we expect in English and other languages. But I'm still not sure what to do with x3 of {mlana}. What has the direction in which x1 is facing got to do with anything, if that is what x3 is? mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com