From lojban-out@lojban.org Fri Aug 30 21:46:49 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 31 Aug 2002 04:46:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 47571 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2002 04:46:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Aug 2002 04:46:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Aug 2002 04:46:49 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 17l09p-00029H-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 21:46:49 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17l09Z-00028u-00; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 21:46:33 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 30 Aug 2002 21:46:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com ([66.68.125.184] ident=root) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17l09U-00028l-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 21:46:28 -0700 Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (asdf@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g7V4peIC010497 for ; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 23:51:40 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from fracture@cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com) Received: (from fracture@localhost) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g7V4pdLp010496 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 23:51:39 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 23:51:39 -0500 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: Re: [lojban] The 16 propositional attitude predicates Message-ID: <20020831045139.GA10436@allusion.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="qDbXVdCdHGoSgWSk" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-archive-position: 860 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: fracture@allusion.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Jordan DeLong From: Jordan DeLong Reply-To: fracture@allusion.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out --qDbXVdCdHGoSgWSk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [ sorry to reply twice ] On Sat, Aug 31, 2002 at 01:20:08AM +0000, Jorge Llambias wrote: > la djordan cusku di'e [ ... ] > >wrong acording to CLL. A quick grep finds in chapter 11, around ex 9.1 > > mi morji le li'i mi verba > >So clearly we can use more than just du'u there. >=20 > Well, {mi morji le li'i mi verba} certainly does not fit the > place structure "x1 remembers that x2 is true about x3", so this > just reinforces my claim that we tend to use it "wrong": even > the Book does it! It turns out that that's not actually the place structure in the gi'uste for morji, btw. It is given the description x1 remembers/recalls/recollects fact(s)/memory x2 (du'u) about subject x3 So in, mi morji le li'i mi verba one can assume that in the x3 place the zo'e could be something like le mi pu'u jmive Some more lookage about "djuno" OTOH, finds in chap 11 confirmation that things of the form mi djuno lenu broda are in fact incorrect. I don't think there's a contradiction between the two sources. But you're probably right that some people have been molesting the se djuno (I sure have been). --=20 Jordan DeLong fracture@allusion.net --qDbXVdCdHGoSgWSk Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE9cEtbDrrilS51AZ8RAvLGAJ9j839wBDnJNe1RMVYKaTICgANAYgCggd81 4Ts36xruW39eZdCbXyWjBi4= =V1vw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --qDbXVdCdHGoSgWSk--