From jjllambias@hotmail.com Sun Sep 08 11:38:14 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 8 Sep 2002 18:38:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 5947 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2002 18:38:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Sep 2002 18:38:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.80) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Sep 2002 18:38:14 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 11:38:14 -0700 Received: from 200.69.6.10 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 08 Sep 2002 18:38:14 GMT To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [lojban] me le cmalu turni me'u panomoi bo pagbu Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 18:38:14 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Sep 2002 18:38:14.0178 (UTC) FILETIME=[E3E91820:01C25766] From: "Jorge Llambias" X-Originating-IP: [200.69.6.10] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=6071566 X-Yahoo-Profile: jjllambias2000 la greg cusku di'e > > i e'e do ja'a kakne > >{e'edai} I think this a case where {dai} should be used ju'oru'e To better understand {e'e} I look at its neighbours: e'a permission: you may do it! I let you do it. e'e exhortation: you can do it! I encourage you to do it. e'o request: please do it! I ask you to do it. e'u suggestion: you might do it! I suggest you do it. ei obligation: you should do it! I think you should do it. They are all primarily oriented to the actions of the hearer, though this is by no means a restriction: {do} need not be the agent of the bridi, it might be someone else. The speaker is the one who gives permission, exhorts, requests, suggests or feels that something should be done, it is not the one allowed, exhorted, asked, suggested or obliged to do something, unless of course the actor is {mi}. (I did not include {e'i} there because I'm not yet quite sure what it means, but I expect it will belong in there too.) I think "exhortation" would be a better keyword than "competence" for {e'e}: It is not the competence of the speaker that is at stakes, it is rather that the speaker feels that the agent is competent to do whatever it is they're doing or would be doing. >Hey, I just noticed why your texts look so attractive: you've gotten rid of >all those unnecessary explicit {.} Exactly :) mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com