From jjllambias@hotmail.com Sat Sep 28 17:41:04 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_4); 29 Sep 2002 00:41:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 74759 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2002 00:41:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Sep 2002 00:41:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.240.131) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Sep 2002 00:41:03 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 28 Sep 2002 17:41:03 -0700 Received: from 200.69.6.55 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 29 Sep 2002 00:41:03 GMT To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: interactions between tenses, other tenses, and NA Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 00:41:03 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Sep 2002 00:41:03.0875 (UTC) FILETIME=[E3EC3D30:01C26750] From: "Jorge Llambias" X-Originating-IP: [200.69.6.55] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=6071566 X-Yahoo-Profile: jjllambias2000 la pycyn cusku di'e >English >represents ~Fab by a~Fb, even when a is a quantified expression (though not >always), Maybe that holds sometimes for "all", but does it ever hold for "some"? "Some guests are not here yet" is not ~ExFxb, it is Ex~Fxb, I hope. >so the way that natural langauges represent ~Fab is a~Fb (this is >still pretty much true for SAE, with variants -- less true for French, if I >remember rightly; I don't remember the distribution for Spanish cases; In Spanish, saying "todos no" instead of "no todos" sounds extremely weird to me. (Saying in English "Everybody doesn't" instead of "Not everybody does" sounds just as weird to me, but maybe it is because of the Spanish influence.) It can be done, but in very restricted circumstances, with a very emphatic "todos". >pretty >true for German), so Loglan (hence, Lojban) should represent ~Fab (even if >a >is quantified, i.e., ~ QxFxb) as a~Fb. But Loglan kept it as ~ Qx xFb, didn't it? >Yeah, I know, but that is sorta how >it went and we are stuck with it (although I don't find it that hard to >deal >with, since it is so like (my) English). It is not hard for simple sentences, but once you have two or three quantifiers floating around, I find it very hard. mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com