From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed Oct 02 07:54:52 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_4); 2 Oct 2002 14:54:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 76685 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2002 14:54:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2002 14:54:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2002 14:54:52 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 17wkwt-0004VC-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 02 Oct 2002 07:58:03 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17wkwI-0004Uq-00; Wed, 02 Oct 2002 07:57:26 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 02 Oct 2002 07:57:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com ([66.68.125.184] ident=root) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17wkwE-0004Uf-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 02 Oct 2002 07:57:22 -0700 Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (asdf@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g92F1SGZ078406 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:01:28 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from fracture@cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com) Received: (from fracture@localhost) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g92F1RPO078405 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:01:27 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:01:27 -0500 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: tu'o du'u (was Re: xoi'a) Message-ID: <20021002150127.GA78260@allusion.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ReaqsoxgOBHFXBhH" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-archive-position: 1820 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: fracture@allusion.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Jordan DeLong From: Jordan DeLong Reply-To: fracture@allusion.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out --ReaqsoxgOBHFXBhH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Oct 02, 2002 at 03:01:06PM +0100, And Rosta wrote: > jordan: [...] > #> {le du'u} is used a lot by everybody (though {le} is not really > #> appropriate there), and many uses of {le nu} should have {du'u} > #> instead (though maybe usage is improving in this regard?). > # > #Sure, many uses of "le nu" should be something like "lo'e nu" or > #"lo nu" or whatnot. But I can't think of an example of an incorrect > #"le" with du'u like you're talking about. Did you have something in min= d? >=20 > "le du'u" =3D "each of certain du'u". If there is only 1 du'u for a given= =20 > propositional content, then reference will succeed, but it's a bit like > referring to my head as "each of certain of my head(s)" -- rather > misleading. "le broda" implies the question "Which broda?". > So "le gerku" is sensible, because "Which dog?" is a reasonable > response, but "le mamta be mi" is odd because "Which mother of > yours?" is redundant, though it can also be interpreted as > "She (i.e. my mother)", in which case the {le} is not odd. This wasn't an example of a bad usage of "le" with du'u. Remember, x1 of du'u is a predication (formed by the abstraction inside the du'u). As far as I can think it, there's no difference between ledu'u and lodu'u, because you just said the predication. No one can ask "which predicaton?" (sensibly). --=20 Jordan DeLong - fracture@allusion.net lu zo'o loi censa bakni cu terzba le zaltapla poi xagrai li'u sei la mark. tuen. cusku --ReaqsoxgOBHFXBhH Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE9mwpHDrrilS51AZ8RAjdvAJ0f//I1m4fpsRoiWou5V9QQ7+JFwACgs3KZ sX7H3SXqjkm1mniuL672mAc= =oPKQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ReaqsoxgOBHFXBhH--