From lojban-out@lojban.org Fri Nov 08 02:19:11 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 8 Nov 2002 10:19:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 32509 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 10:19:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Nov 2002 10:19:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 10:19:11 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 18A6EJ-0000Cp-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 02:19:11 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18A6EC-0000CY-00; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 02:19:04 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 08 Nov 2002 02:19:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mxout1.netvision.net.il ([194.90.9.20]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18A6E6-0000CK-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 02:18:58 -0800 Received: from default ([62.0.146.193]) by mxout1.netvision.net.il (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 0.8 (built Jul 12 2002)) with SMTP id <0H590044S5YDYU@mxout1.netvision.net.il> for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:18:14 +0200 (IST) Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:18:43 +0200 Subject: [lojban] Re: importing ro To: "lojban-list@lojban.org" Message-id: <0H590044T5YDYU@mxout1.netvision.net.il> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Foxmail 4.1 [eg] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-archive-position: 2531 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: araizen@cs.huji.ac.il Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Adam Raizen From: Adam Raizen Reply-To: araizen@cs.huji.ac.il X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out de'i li 2002-11-07 ti'u li 16:34:00 la'o zoi. Robin Lee Powell .zoi cusku di'e >Jordan has done a complete derivation of that equation from the CLL, >and having read the derivation I am inclined to say that that equation >is mandated by the CLL. > >In Ch16: > >6.6) re prenu viska mi > Two persons see me. >is short for >6.7) re da poi prenu cu viska mi > Two Xes which are-persons see me. >which in turn is short for: >6.8) re da poi prenu zo'u da viska mi > For-two Xes which are-persons : X sees me. > >Since ro is in PA, this obviously applies. I don't see that there's anything >to argue about. Close, but this doesn't necessarily imply that 'PA broda' is equivalent to 'PA lo broda'. As I noted on jboske, ch. 8 sec. 6 says "so-called indefinite sumti like ``re karce'' [..] [mean] almost the same as ``re lo karce''". I'm not sure whether "almost the same" was just caution John's part, in case they turn out to be different, or whether he was maybe referring to some esoteric difference, such as the fact that 're karce' can only have a relative clause after the 'ku', whereas 're lo karce' can have it both before and after, or whether there was really supposed to be some small difference. mu'o mi'e .adam.