From lojbab@lojban.org Sat Nov 30 07:56:43 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 30 Nov 2002 15:56:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 82480 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2002 15:56:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Nov 2002 15:56:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lakemtao03.cox.net) (68.1.17.242) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 15:56:42 -0000 Received: from lojban.lojban.org ([68.100.206.153]) by lakemtao03.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20021130155642.SSEO2204.lakemtao03.cox.net@lojban.lojban.org> for ; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 10:56:42 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20021130102449.03a2d910@pop.east.cox.net> X-Sender: rlechevalier@pop.east.cox.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 10:47:04 -0500 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Vestigal Loglandians (was: Re: Re: Official Statement- LLG Board approves new baseline policy) In-Reply-To: <20021130070715.V47142-100000@granite.thestonecutters.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021129203701.0312b050@pop.east.cox.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Robert LeChevalier X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1120595 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojbab At 07:08 AM 11/30/02 -0500, xod wrote: >On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Robert LeChevalier wrote: > > The other side of the coin is that The Loglan Institute, since the death of > > JCB and his first successor Alex Leith a year later, is barely extant as an > > organization. It is not clear that it has a long term future, or that the > > TLI language version will survive in any form. > >What are the latest figures on the size and well-being of the Loglan >community these days? I doubt that anyone has good figures for the size of either community. We know a minimum size for the Lojban community based on the size of Lojban List, and we know that most of those on the list have enough interest in the language to put up with the occasional flood of messages. The Loglanists List rarely has any traffic, and when it does, it is a half dozen messages at most and then silence. Several Lojbanists are subscribed, so a raw membership count of the list would be misleading. The only real sign of vitality other than McIvor's work in the last couple of years, was the efforts of a couple of Russians who were spreading the faith in their country and language, and the English speaking world has no window into how much is going on. It is likely that JCB sold about the same number of his 1989 book as we've sold of the refgrammar, but he did so over many more years. We know that he has enough names that he has been able to use bulk mail at times, but we don't know how many of those names are really still interested. They may have more money than us, because they had numbers of larger donations at times. The TLI community was apparently significantly older on average, when we attempted to compare the two. My guess is for various activity levels, at the number of 300 Loglanists would compare with the number 1500 for Lojbanists. The number of 50 Loglanists would compare with the number 300 for Lojbanists. But the number of 5 Loglanists would compare with the number 100 Lojbanists. In short, they have a dearth of seriously active people who are competent in the language. The question is whether Lojban can gain these people if TLI and its version disappear. Historically, the richest recruiting field for artificial language supporters has been among the supporters of other artificial languages. This has led to deep and antagonistic rivalries that are unhealthy to the artificial language community. I've tried to steer Lojban clear of this, while even so taking advantage of every opportunity to attract the interest of conlangers that support other languages. The TLI people would be among the best to recruit, since the TLI language really is quite similar to Lojban. lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org