From lojban-out@lojban.org Sun Dec 01 21:34:13 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 2 Dec 2002 05:34:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 64720 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2002 05:34:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Dec 2002 05:34:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Dec 2002 05:34:13 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 18IjDg-0001y0-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 01 Dec 2002 21:34:12 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18IjDa-0001xj-00; Sun, 01 Dec 2002 21:34:06 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 01 Dec 2002 21:34:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.ispwest.com ([216.52.245.18] helo=ispwestemail1.aceweb.net) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18IjDT-0001xW-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 01 Dec 2002 21:33:59 -0800 Received: from surreality.us (unverified [4.47.240.153]) by ispwestemail1.aceweb.net (Vircom SMTPRS 1.4.232) with SMTP id for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 21:36:53 -0800 Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 21:33:56 -0800 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: ka'enai (was: Re: A question on the new baseline policy) Message-Id: <20021201213356.2b684f01.rizen@surreality.us> In-Reply-To: <20021202025037.GB31478@allusion.net> References: <20021201203605.B52499-100000@granite.thestonecutters.net> <20021202025037.GB31478@allusion.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.6 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux - www.debian.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="pgp-sha1"; boundary="=.UPCkgv+1uyl1Mf" X-archive-position: 2863 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: rizen@surreality.us Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Theodore Reed From: Theodore Reed Reply-To: rizen@surreality.us X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out --=.UPCkgv+1uyl1Mf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, 1 Dec 2002 20:50:37 -0600 Jordan DeLong wrote: > "Let usage decide" refers to a time (which we are not anywhere near) > in the distant future when people can fluently speak lojban. It > does not refer to mistakes people make when learning. Usage is not > sufficient to decide anything right now, and of the usage which > exists there's barely any ka'enai---there's only a few people who > would rather change it to be correct than to just take a look at > the BNF and learn what the grammar for tenses really is (CAhA is > not just like PU, neither is ZAhO, etc). Amen! One of the things I fear most about the future of Lojban is the potential for "standard errors". I think even Lojbab has said that the biggest hurdle we initial speakers of the language face is that of bootstrapping. Letting the usage of non-fluent people decide would be, IMO, a very bad idea. .iesai le pu'i manri bo selsrera cu cmima le'i traji selterpa be mi bei ca le lojbo balvi .i ti'e la lojbab pu cusku le du'u le nu cfarygau cu traji ternabmi romi poi krasi pilno le bangu .i le nu curmi le za'i le nunpilno pe le nalcertu prenu cu jai jdice keikei xlali Heh, hope I didn't hose up that translation too badly. -- Theodore Reed (rizen/bancus) -==- http://www.surreality.us/ ~OpenPGP Signed/Encrypted Mail Preferred; Finger me for my public key!~ "We have committed a greater crime, and for this crime there is no name. What punishment awaits us if it be discovered we know not, for no such crime has come in the memory of men and there are no laws to provide for it." -- Equality 7-2521, Ayn Rand's Anthem --=.UPCkgv+1uyl1Mf Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE96vDEw24JwM4aDNwRAhCAAJ49JLN5yc8+/N7zH68MoRG1b/cElACfQSvc jufHA3nF753QZrJl559s+Qo= =aa9C -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=.UPCkgv+1uyl1Mf--