From lojbab@lojban.org Sat Dec 07 10:50:37 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 7 Dec 2002 18:50:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 49825 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2002 18:50:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Dec 2002 18:50:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lakemtao02.cox.net) (68.1.17.243) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Dec 2002 18:50:36 -0000 Received: from lojban.lojban.org ([68.100.206.153]) by lakemtao02.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20021207185036.SHO2203.lakemtao02.cox.net@lojban.lojban.org> for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:50:36 -0500 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20021207133632.03a98140@pop.east.cox.net> X-Sender: rlechevalier@pop.east.cox.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 13:43:55 -0500 To: Subject: RE: [lojban] Re: cmegadri valfendi preti In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.9.0.20021206223513.03a4fec0@pop.east.cox.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Robert LeChevalier X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1120595 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojbab At 11:05 AM 12/7/02 +0000, And Rosta wrote: >As you may have noticed, English doesn't >have self-segmentation, yet you converse in it without problems with >determining word boundaries. I'm a native speaker. But people seem to have trouble learning English. And my limitations in learning Russian have been in part one of picking words out. Generally for me to understand Russian, I have to identify one or two common words in the speech stream and resolve from there. If there are no familiar words in the speech stream, I cannot resolve Russian into words. Fluent Spanish I cannot resolve at all even if I do occasionally recognize a word going by. >As I said in messages of yesterday, I strongly suspect that with >spoken Lojban, as with natural languages, we rely mainly on pragmatics >rather than phonology to disambiguate word-boundaries. I acknowledge >that I have had almost nil experience of hearing spoken Lojban >while you have had a lot, so I may be wrong. It should be easy to test. Have the random sentence generator generate something long and random but in theory grammatical. Get someone to read it fluently at varying speeds (a text-to-speech generator would be best to prevent speaker cuing of word boundaries, and see if it can be resolved by a listener. lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org