From opoudjis@optushome.com.au Wed Dec 11 06:57:08 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: opoudjis@optushome.com.au X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 11 Dec 2002 14:57:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 69117 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2002 14:57:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2002 14:57:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail010.syd.optusnet.com.au) (210.49.20.138) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2002 14:57:06 -0000 Received: from optushome.com.au (c17180.brasd1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.155.40]) by mail010.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gBBEv5F29459 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2002 01:57:05 +1100 Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 01:57:04 +1100 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: Subject: g/k (was: RE: Re: More stuff To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.548) From: Nick Nicholas X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=90350612 X-Yahoo-Profile: opoudjis Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 15:03:20 -0000 From: "And Rosta" Subject: g/k (was: RE: Re: More stuff > English is another, of course. I formerly rendered /g/:/k/ English- > style as [k]:[kh], but then I had a terrible time understanding Nick > who, following the official line, said [g]:[k]; I heard all his > /p, t, k/ as /b, d, g/. And of course, you know why I did so, right? Not official line; but Modern Greek, which has no aspiration. Ivan Derzhanski pronounces all umpteen languages he speaks like Bulgarian :-) ; I pronounce da'are like Greek, and my German is painful indeed. The da'apamoi is Klingon, which I actually pronounce New Zealandish --- I overcentralise the lax vowels. (No lax vowels in Greek, y'see...) > So now I try to say [g]:[kh] -- to my ears, > the /b, d, g/ come out sounding very French. I'm behind on this: how do you mean? Are you talking about voicing the d's in all contexts, or something else? Length? > (Interestingly, my son said to me the other day "Are you writing to > [xod]?" with a fully voiced unEnglish-sounding (and hence > French-sounding) [d], > so he must have noticed that the final consonant in _xod_ is not > pronounced in > the English way.) I always love it when linguists involve their family members in their anecdotes.... /// A freshman once observed to me: Nick Nicholas, PhD, On the edge of the Rubicon French/Italian, Univ. of Melbourne. Men don't go fishing. nickn@unimelb.edu.au -- Alice Goodman, _Nixon in China_. http://www.opoudjis.net