From lojban-out@lojban.org Thu Mar 13 06:01:53 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_6_1); 13 Mar 2003 14:01:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 54010 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2003 14:01:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2003 14:01:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Mar 2003 14:01:53 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 18tTHM-00026C-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 13 Mar 2003 06:01:52 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18tTH4-00025a-00; Thu, 13 Mar 2003 06:01:34 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 13 Mar 2003 06:01:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no ([129.241.210.67] ident=[io8e2Z3+bDDXiwn07JUbnUwYMmKhJR88]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18tTGY-00025N-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 13 Mar 2003 06:01:02 -0800 Received: from hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no ([IPv6:::ffff:129.241.210.68]:63926 "EHLO hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no" ident: "[QqwrcOkD6iYPTHe/JMryoWnGyUqzqmCN]" whoson: "-unregistered-") by sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no with ESMTP id convert rfc822-to-quoted-printable; Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:00:46 +0100 Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:00:46 +0100 (CET) X-X-Sender: arj@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Suggestions Sought: NORALUJV and jbovlaste In-Reply-To: <20030313003009.GO25165@digitalkingdom.org> Message-ID: References: <20030313003009.GO25165@digitalkingdom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 4460 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: arj@nvg.org Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Arnt Richard Johansen From: Arnt Richard Johansen Reply-To: arj@nvg.org X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > NORALUJV cannot usefully be loaded into jbovlaste, because the > definition format in no way resembles the lojbanic standard.  For > example: > > fazyta'a                annoy+talk > fanza+tavla:  chatter:   x1 = tavla1 (talk) = fanza 1 (pest), x2 = tavla2 > (talked to), x3 = tavla3 (talk subject), x4 = tavla4 (talk language), x5 > = > fanza2 (annoyed) > > So, I'm seeking advice on ways to make this easier.  > > Possible Options: Other options, in ascending order of manularity: 1. The lujvo list is imported into Jbovlaste as-is, except that the place structure is reduced into gismu abbreviations. For the example above, this would yield the definition "chatter: $t_1=f_1$ $t_2$ $t_3$ $t_5$ $f_2$" This is what was done in Veijo's 1993 TeX dictionary, and is IMHO perfectly understandable for most lojbanists. The downside of choosing this solution is that all the lujvo from NORALUJV.TXT, which will be the majority, will appear less clearly defined than those newly entered into Jbovlaste. But, confusing entries could easily be changed to the newer, verbose place definition format just by entering an alternative definition and having it voted on. 2. The lujvo definition is constructed algorithmically on the basis of the place definitions in the gismu list. For the example above, this would yield the definition "$t_1=f_1$ is chatter to $t_2$ about subject $t_3$ in language $t_4$ $f_2$" This would need a lot of cleaning up afterwards, but it would work out-of-the-box for many, if not most, lujvo. I think I could check and rewrite maybe 50 - 100 such entries if they were in a flat file; slightly less so if in a web interface. 3. All the words and gloss words from NORALUJV.TXT are auto-entered, but with the definition field left blank. If some dedicated soul(s) find that any of them are inadequate, they can write their own (verbose) definitions from NORALUJV.TXT, which will supersede the official entry when voted on. -- Arnt Richard Johansen http://arj.nvg.org/ Jeg er nok verdens sydligste sengevæter. Forutsatt at ingen på basen på Sydpolen driver med slikt, da. --Erling Kagge: Alene til Sydpolen