From xod@thestonecutters.net Thu Mar 13 10:57:14 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_6_1); 13 Mar 2003 18:57:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 60306 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2003 18:57:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2003 18:57:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Mar 2003 18:57:13 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 18tXtB-0000MG-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 13 Mar 2003 10:57:13 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18tXt6-0000Lv-00; Thu, 13 Mar 2003 10:57:08 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 13 Mar 2003 10:57:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from [66.111.194.10] (helo=granite.thestonecutters.net) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18tXsz-0000Lf-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 13 Mar 2003 10:57:01 -0800 Received: from granite.thestonecutters.net (localhost.thestonecutters.net [127.0.0.1]) by granite.thestonecutters.net (8.12.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h2DIuoXd087066 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2003 13:56:50 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from xod@thestonecutters.net) Received: from localhost (xod@localhost) by granite.thestonecutters.net (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h2DIunXw087063 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2003 13:56:49 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from xod@thestonecutters.net) X-Authentication-Warning: granite.thestonecutters.net: xod owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 13:56:48 -0500 (EST) To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: spofu skami In-Reply-To: <20030313185023.GL25165@digitalkingdom.org> Message-ID: <20030313135208.S85179-100000@granite.thestonecutters.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 4486 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: xod@thestonecutters.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: Invent Yourself Reply-To: xod@thestonecutters.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110189215 X-Yahoo-Profile: throwing_back_the_apple On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 01:42:37PM -0500, Invent Yourself wrote: > > On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > > On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 01:22:54PM -0500, Invent Yourself wrote: > > > > 'nirna' means things that neuron, or are neuron-like or that do > > > > what neurons do, which isn't restricted to Neurons. It seems that > > > > Neurons can go into nirna x1, but there are lo nirna that aren't > > > > Neurons. > > > > > > neuron: > > > > > > 1. Has dozens, sometimes hundreds of connections to other neurons. > > > > > > 2. Collates inbound data as an aggregate to decide whether to send > > > outbound data. > > > > > > 3. Has a wide range of physical shapes, but generally consists of a > > > bundle of goo attached to a long rod of goo with some feelers off > > > the end of the rod. > > > > > > 4. Conists mostly of carbon, with some nitrogen, oxygen, and other > > > trace elements. > > > > > > I believe those are all the major necessary and sufficient features > > > of a neuron. > > > > > > Not a *SINGLE* *ONE* of those points applies to an ethernet cable, a > > > fiber optice cable, a small number of networked computers, or a > > > sigle computer data switch. > > > > > > NONE OF THEM. NOT ONE. > > > > > > The gismu definition doesn't list these. How do you know they all > > pertain to nirna such that every lo nirna must have them? > > Because all I have do go on is the fact that the definition consist > entirely of the words "nerve" and "neuron". No. You also have, to go on, the text that you don't like, but is there clearly in the gi'uste. > > > Instead of looking at the differences, you might look at the > > similarities. > > *WHAT* similarities?!? Nerves collect data, collate it, and push it to > other things *just* *like* *them*. I am aware of *no* human-made > networking system that scales beyond two nodes that consists entirely of > the same type of object; there is *always* a mediator. Computers don't > talk to computers, they talk to switches. Fiber optic cables don't push > data at all, there are mere a transmission medium. The axon, if > you will. > > And, by the way, similarities between what and what, exactly? Is a > fiber optic cable a nirna? Is a networked computer a nirna? Is two > cans and a piece of string a nirna? Does that make a piece of string a > nirna? Is a phone switch a nirna? Is a phone a nirna? Is a phone cable > a nirna? Is a pair of headphones a nirna? Is a loudspeaker a nirna? > Is an ssh connection a nirna? Is a mail reader a nirna? Is yelling > really loud a nirna? Hey, talking is a an "information/control network > connection", right? Talking is a nirna! We don't need tavla, we have > nirna! Oh, I guess we don't need cusku either! Weee, isn't this fun! I know that I could do the same process with each and every gismu definition. > Yes, some of that was hyperbole, but far from all of it. > > And you wonder why I'm concerned about polysemy in this case. Yeesh. > > I've explained myself *thoroughly*. Now it's your turn. I don't have anything to explain. nirna can have one definition that covers more than the English "neuron" or "nerve", without being polysemic. -- "This is an example of what elections should be, with 97 percent participation, free of money and corruption and totally transparent," Cuban Vice President Carlos Lage told Reuters.