From lojbab@lojban.org Wed Feb 23 23:07:14 2000 X-Digest-Num: 373 Message-ID: <44114.373.2072.959273826@eGroups.com> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 02:07:14 -0500 From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" Subject: Re: banli pu'u fanva At 12:16 AM 02/24/2000 -0700, reciproc@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca wrote: > > We have some specialized computer words, but we need more and the list I > > host at http://www.decadezero.org/skami_jvoste.html contains errors and > > lacks places. I intend to fix this. If I get catalyzed, I can take care of > > that next week. Working on this project will do that. .i mi djica le nu mi > > tu'a vricyvelskuselnirna bau la lojban > >.i'o mi na pu djuno le du'u le skami jvoste cu zasti > >I notice you have "samynir" (which should be samynirna, btw) where I used >"samci'e". The dictionary says that both nirna and ciste can mean network. >So, knowledgeable types, what's the difference here? nirna expresses the relationship between a neuron/nerve and the neural network that it is a part of. ciste is any system of structured interrelated components - it has the structure explicitly as part of the place structure as well as the system and its components. Usually ciste will be the better word for "network" over selnirna (it would have to be samselnirna, BTW; you cannot choose a consonant-final rafsi for the last component of a lujvo, you cannot use "y" hyphen unless it is mandatory, and convention per the book seems to be that the final component should be correctly marked for conversion - samnirna would be a computer-neuron.) Another possible word for network would be based on benji: samxelbe'i would be a media of computer communication/transfer. While I understand that people are desirous of having words for computer jargon in order to talk about things that they work on, jargon is probably the worst place to start in learning lujvo formation rules OR the art of choosing good metaphors. The temptation will be to either be malglico based on the English keywords and modes of expressing the concepts behind the jargon, or to ignore the constraining effects of place structures on the meaning. I would probably spend 3 or 4 times as long choosing a metaphor for a computer jargon term, and perhaps propose 3 or 4 with different place structures as dictated by conventions, rather than expect to make up a simple word list. (Indeed, for most concepts I try to think up more than one plausible metaphor. There SELDOM will be only one Lojban word for any English word, since English is so prone to polysemy (and this affects some jargon as well). Make up jargon words for convenience, indeed, but tackle the place structures early rather than simply make lists of tanru. These will be the lowest priority words to put in the dictionary, especially if merely listed without analyzing place structures since lujvo will not be listed without a proposed place structure. (A translation of a commercial endeavor will be a bad place to have a lot of ad hoc words, so the big translation project is a nice learning challenge but should not be aimed at actually having it used, since the ad hoc lujvo that are created are likely to include many that will not stand the test of time, and the people running the project are not going to want half-baked translations which is the best that any Lojbanist could do at this point.) lojbab lojbab ---- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org (newly updated!)