From graywyvern@hotmail.com Fri May 12 08:08:02 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7213 invoked from network); 12 May 2000 15:08:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m4.onelist.org with QMQP; 12 May 2000 15:08:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO qh.egroups.com) (10.1.2.28) by mta2 with SMTP; 12 May 2000 15:08:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 15007 invoked from network); 12 May 2000 15:08:02 -0000 Received: from mw.egroups.com (10.1.2.2) by iqh.egroups.com with SMTP; 12 May 2000 15:08:02 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: graywyvern@hotmail.com Received: from [10.1.10.118] by mw.egroups.com with NNFMP; 12 May 2000 15:08:02 -0000 Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 15:07:54 -0000 To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: redherringfication of lojban Message-ID: <8fh6oa+dvo1@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1894 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster From: "michael helsem" (from alt.language.artificial:) Since the death of James Cooke Brown, inventor of Loglan, there have been calls for the reunification of the Loglan and Lojban movements. I think it's a good idea, and it's also an opportunity to make some changes in the basic structure of the language(s) without reducing the advantages. What follows is a proposal I've formulated to send out to any interested persons: (in reaction to calls for reunification) Or, maybe better yet, since total relexification seems to be in the cards, redo the vocabulary a la my suggestion of many years ago. To summarize: Redefine word-shape. CV & CVV to remain as little words, but predicates to have the shape of nCnV (excluding CV(V), of course. This involves changing n,m,r,l (plus q for the 'ng' phoneme) to the vowel classification, tho they are not to be considered vowels in the definition of little words. Complexes will be made by simple juxtaposition (thereby doing away with allomorphs), and the inclusion of a lw (I originally suggested 'sa' as a separator between preds that are not meant to form complexes). If you look at a random text of Loglan, you'll see that very few 'sa's would be necessary. Thus: to blu sa faul = the blue bird to blufaul = the bluebird And, rather than derive vocabulary by the traditional method, I recommend choosing words from languages, beginning with the largest, based on how well they fit the word-shape, as in 'blu' and 'faul' above. A quick look at English, Hindi, and Spanish show that a _lot_ of vocabulary can be easily derived from just those three languages. Finally, neither 'loglan' nor 'lojban' would fit the new word-shape, so I suggest 'Braunlan,' in honor of JCB. --Rex F. May rmay@peakpeak.com (I can't seem to get a message sent to the Lojban newsgroup. I'd appreciate it if any of you who can would forward this to it. Thanks.)