From robin@BILKENT.EDU.TR Mon Jul 03 13:56:21 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5741 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2000 20:56:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m2.onelist.org with QMQP; 3 Jul 2000 20:56:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO firat.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr) (139.179.10.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Jul 2000 20:56:18 -0000 Received: from bilkent.edu.tr (slip3.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr [139.179.70.13]) by firat.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id e63Kx0D26358 for ; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 23:59:01 +0300 (EET DST) Sender: robin@Bilkent.EDU.TR Message-ID: <3960FE75.16AB8A7F@bilkent.edu.tr> Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 23:58:29 +0300 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Englishistic References: <8joa8j+hmma@eGroups.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Robin Turner "Alfred W. Tueting (Tüting)" wrote: > --- In lojban@egroups.com, pycyn@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 00-07-01 18:06:24 EDT, xod writes: > > > > << All these intense discussions of the intricacies of Lojban > grammar occur > > in English. I wonder how different they would be were they > conducted in a > > different natural language! It should be attempted, even if by a > reduced > > set of the participants. >> > > > > And most of the languages we do sorta know (German, > > French, Spanish, say) are so much like English in all but the forms > they take > > (and often rather like that too) that we might as well stick to > English -- > > hoping that those who are at home elsewhere will jump on too > Englishistic > > cases (is "yet/still/already" one?) > > As far I can see, "yet/still/already etc." are quite the same in most > European languages: also "no longer" (=not more) seems > equivalent - "nicht mehr", "non ... plus", "non ... piu`", "nu mai": > Yet Hungarian is different: már (=already), mármár=almost, > csak már=only left - and *már nem=no longer*(!) > Turkish (also Altaic) is also different. "Still" (as in continuing) is "hala" (should be a circumflex on the first "a" , IIRC); "not yet" is "henüz" or more colloquially "daha" (the latter also meaning "more") with a past tense and negative on the verb (e.g. "daha gelmedi" - "he/she/it hasn't come yet", in contrast to "hala gelmedi" - "he/she/it _still_ hasn't come"). There is no exact equivalent of "already"; the closest are "s~imdiden" ("from now") and "c~oktan" ("from much"), both of which imply that the event took place a considerable time before what was expected. "No longer" would be "artIk", which literally means "now", but with a negative verb carries this sense, e.g. "ArtIk c~oc~uk deg^il" - "He/she is no longer a child". ta'o I like "Robin the Turk"! If anyone would like to discuss Lojban in Turkish, I'll be happy to, though I suspect Ivan is the only other Turkish speaker on this list. co'o mi'e robin. pe bangrturku