From ljm@xxxx.xxx.xxxxxx.xxxx Sun Feb 21 04:40:28 1999 X-Digest-Num: 69 Message-ID: <44114.69.342.959273824@eGroups.com> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 20:40:28 +0800 From: Lin Zhemin .a'o le ze'e ractu nanca ku do lifri lenu kanro je ricfu je gleki do se ckire .i > Mandarin was her 2nd language in any case (after Cantonese or Hakka, I imagine) and > her accent was just _weird_! Hakkanese can speak Mandarin better, more approximate to the "standard". Paradoxically, there doesn't exist something called "standard mandarin". People use the combined word very often to indicate whether one speaks Mandarin well or not. If someone speaks the Mandarin spoken in Beijing, people in Taiwan would feel very strange, though. Cantonese just can't speak nor Mandarin nor English very well, unless they're properly entrained. I fear that the discussion would be too far that it isn't suitable to the list anymore. Your original question is something like "how to pronounce lojban `r'" and "how do oriental people pronounce it", isn't it? > Maybe I misremembered - as I probably said, I only studied Chinese for one year, about > 20 years ago. What I meant was "speaking with 'r'". Ja, you've told that. And sorry that I just can't guess what you've meant by "ershui". But what you implied in the paragraph, we call it in Taiwan "er1 hua4 yun4" (er-ised rhyme). > Well, that's the general principle of Lojban phonology, and I note that "r" is the > phoneme with the greatest range of acceptable pronunciation. Yeah. I think this seems to be a bit paradoxical, though. Lojban defines that one voice matches one letter, but it doesn't define the prononciation in some precise way. There are some lojban lesson tapes (and I have one), but it doesn't mean that Bob or Jorges _pronounce_ lojban in a standard way... > remember singing Medieval French songs with a much more alveolar "r". That's supposed to be some song sang in "langue d'oc", or "langue proven蓷le". I've heard some medieval songs in French civilisation course, too. > about translating a few extracts for the website? Or maybe a bit of Du Fu or Li Bo? I'm afraid that I don't have the ability to translate them, even into French nor English.. I read some poems and my girlfriend studies in Chinese (ancient Chinese and Chinese literature, i.e.) But we dare not to say that we understand it... "Translator is betrayer", as the old Italien proverb said. :-) > {pe'i} Lojban would be ideal for translating wenhua. But I'm not good in lojban. -- .e'osai ko sarji la lojban. ==> 請支持邏輯語言。 co'o mi'e lindjy,min. ==> 再見，我是林哲民。 Fingerprint20 = CE32 D237 02C0 FE31 FEA9 B858 DE8F AE2D D810 F2D9