From robin@BILKENT.EDU.TR Thu Jul 06 04:53:28 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13124 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2000 11:53:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m1.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Jul 2000 11:53:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO firat.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr) (139.179.10.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jul 2000 11:53:26 -0000 Received: from bilkent.edu.tr (IDENT:robin@fast3.fen.bilkent.edu.tr [139.179.97.28]) by firat.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id e66BuBD08253 for ; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 14:56:11 +0300 (EET DST) Sender: robin@Bilkent.EDU.TR Message-ID: <39647251.C978CC22@bilkent.edu.tr> Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 14:49:37 +0300 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-5.0 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Englishistic References: <8joa8j+hmma@eGroups.com> <3960FE75.16AB8A7F@bilkent.edu.tr> <3961FCAC.800DAC2E@math.bas.bg> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Robin Ivan A Derzhanski wrote: > > Robin Turner wrote: > > > Turkish (also Altaic) is also different. > > Why `also Altaic'? Hungarian is Uralic, not Altaic. Oops! I must have been carrying over from the old (an invalid) "Ural-Altaic" category. > > > "Still" (as in continuing) is "hala" (should be a circumflex > > on the first "a" , IIRC); > > Should be a circumflex on both _a_. This suffices to label the word > as a non-Turkish one; in fact it is Arabic, borrowed via Persian, and > meant `now, presently' before developing the meaning of `still'. > Makes an interesting contrast with "artIk", then. > > (e.g. "daha gelmedi" - "he/she/it hasn't come yet", > > in contrast to "hala gelmedi" - "he/she/it _still_ hasn't come"). > > I'd be curious to hear you discuss the difference between these two. > Jorge and I are native speakers of languages in which `still not' is > the only way of saying `not yet', and here you talk of a contrast. In the first case there seems to be no, or weak, implication that the event should have happened by now. For example, you can say in English "The film hasn't started yet", or in turkish "Film daha bas~lamadI" without implying that it should have started - maybe you are pointing out that the film starts at 21:00 and it is only 20:55. With "still" and "ha^la^", however, I think there is some implication of lateness. co'o mi'e robin.