From robin@xxxxxxx.xxx.xxx Sun Feb 21 11:56:52 1999 X-Digest-Num: 69 Message-ID: <44114.69.361.959273824@eGroups.com> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 21:56:52 +0200 From: Robin Turner Sun, 21 Feb 1999, zo Robin Turner(robin@Bilkent.EDU.TR) cusku di'e > > All I know of early Chinese systems of logic are cases of Daoists like > > Zhunagzi taking the mickey out of logicians ({.u'u} I'm afraid I can't > > remember the references. > > Zhuangzi's philosophy is just _near_ that of Laozi. Well, despite that many > people think Laozi and Zhuangzi are both Daoists, their philosophies differ > from each other. There would be many references, but that is far off-topic > to the list. {.ie} We don't even know for sure who these people were! > > > Indian > > logic, on the other hand, is voluminous and well-documented, with various > > competing schools, and this was developed further by the Buddhists. > > Real Buddhist never "develop" things. {ki'a zoi gy. real develop gy.} > Well, N.B. that there are many fake > and phony people making up "Indian philosophical style" stories, just for > those western believers. I was talking about historical texts (which I confess I can't be bothered to read). Remeber dialectic has always been important in Buddhism. > And many Indians just don't know what they're > doing, but that makes money for them. :Q Not being like Juddism, Buddhist, > Indian, and Chinese philosophers don't encourage you to study in characters > and words. {.ienaisai} The Sanskrit alphabet is _very_ important in certain systems, and letters are invoked to produce internal (and, some claim) external effects e.g. Krim krim krim hrim hrim hum hum dakshina Kalika > And there is nothing like "3 basic elements" among Buddhist, > Indian, and Chinese philosophies. Don't forget that the Indian is one > branch of Proto-indoeuropeans, at the same time. (However this sentence is > irrelevant to others. :Q) Some races in India believe that the universe is > made of wind, water, fire, and earth (as they're Indoeuropean descendants, > naturally). But Chinese doesn't think (or think it's less important to know) > what the universe is made of. We have the notion of three lights: sun, moon, > and star, just for they're sources of light. (Ancient people don't know the > moon doesn't illuminate, naturally). We have the notion of wuxing: gold, > tree, water, fire, earth; but they're used to describe the biological > system of man, and later it is _made_adopted_ to some irrational religions. > {pe'i} the wuxing is cosmologically less important because of the existence of the trigrams. It's quite amusing to see people's attempts to synthesise the two - 5 into 8 doesn't go! > > I don't know how you treat or think of oriental philosophies (a huge variety > of Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Tibetian, Indian, Indo-Chinese, prehabitants > of every islands in the ocean, etc.). But to me, there isn't something > called "oriental philosophy", just like there isn't "occidental philosphy" > (we all know the one of Nietzsche differs from that of Heddger, isn't it? > And Saint Thomas-Acquin would never agree with Marx. :Q) {.ie} Living in Turkey really gets home the futility of East/West dichotomies! {pe'i} the distinction in philosophy which is misrendered as East/West is experiential/analytical {ta'o} I'm not using experiential in the Lakoff/Johnson sense here. > And those Hollywood > brain-damaged sh*ts {.u'i .izo'o} Maybe what we need to promote Lojban is a "channeled" Lojban teaching ...... maybe we could tell people Lojban was the original language of Atlantis .... gaaaarggh gurble splurt > and those dummy spells performing earthquakes or > provoking devils are just imagination of western philosophies (the ones > in some Druide, Celtic, or the prehabitants mythologies, i.e., not the > "orthodox" one.) Well I for one don't believe that any amount of willpower, ritual meditation etc. will cause an earthquake. Medieval Tantras {mu'a} are full of improbable stuff like this, partly because people at the time believed you could do it, and partly as advertising. Some things don't change much! It's a bit like all the Taoist immortality stuff - you won't get people to do difficult and boring physical/mental exercises without promising a _big_ reward. Come to think of it, given the tastes of the Kaula Tantra school, "causing earthquakes" could have been a euphemism - "did the earth move for you too, darling?" ;-) > However, if it can make you feel better or treate people in > a better manner, that'll be okay, anyway... :-) Yeah, well at least the New Agers haven't burnt anyone at the stake yet - wouldn't want to contribute to deforestation and greenhouse gases ;-) > I'd like to ask the moderator of the list (if there is one) if this topic is > acceptable to it. It's quite interesting and funny, but not quite lojban > related... > {pe'i} it's all grist to the mill. mi nelci lenu la lojban. sesi'u lepu'u pruxi farvi .imu'ibo lenu mi jbopensi cu sidju mi lenu naljundi le bebna sidbo pe leso'i ruxkulnu .ipe'i lepu'u pruxi farvi cu ka'e mapti lesu'u logji je saske co'o mi'e robin.