From sdlee@xx.xxx.xx Mon Feb 22 18:56:01 1999 X-Digest-Num: 71 Message-ID: <44114.71.408.959273824@eGroups.com> Date: 23 Feb 1999 10:56:01 +0800 From: sdlee@xx.xxx.xx Subject: Re: lojbo cinmo >>>>> "Bob" == Bob LeChevalier (lojbab) writes: Bob> Well, Loglan 1, the original book, is entitled "Loglan - A Bob> Logical Language". Do we actually have somewhere in our Bob> advertising literature something that says "The" implying Bob> "singular" or "only"? ("le logji bangu" would translate as Bob> "the logical language" but not imply singularity of that Bob> description, just in-mindedness). This is just a translation, and as is, it is not _identical_ to the original term. The translation of "le" to "the" is handy but lossy! "le logji bangu", by definition, expresses that it is the speaker's own SUBJECTIVE opinion that this language is "logical". The speaker may, if he likes, use "le logji bangu" to refer to something that is not a language and not a logical thing at all. This is why "le nanmu cu ninmu vau" is not an illogical sentence (i.e. a contradiction). However, the translation "the logical language" does not have this implication of the subjectivity. It indeed slightly suggests that "logical" is an OBJECTIVE nature of the language. Although this is true for Lojban, the use of "the" would suggest that it is the sole language that has this objective property. Bob> The phrase "the logical language Lojban" strikes me more as Bob> being an adjectival phrase, helping people to recall that Bob> Lojban is both a language and purports to have something to Bob> do with logic, rather than being a claim that no other Bob> language is logical. This is different. "The logical language Lojban" is different from "the logical language". The articles in these 2 phrases have different semantic effects. Without context, the latter would be used to refer to the ONLY logical language of the world, implying that there are no other logical languages. The former, on the other hand, just means "the logical language which is called Lojban", with the implication that there are other logical languages which have different names. Compare "The logical language Lojban" with "Lojban, the logical language". Are they different? Compare the latter with "Lojban, a logical language". Any difference? -- Lee Sau Dan §õ¦u´°(Big5) ~{@nJX6X~}(HZ) .----------------------------------------------------------------------------. | http://www.cs.hku.hk/~sdlee e-mail: sdlee@cs.hku.hk | `----------------------------------------------------------------------------'