From graywyvern@hotmail.com Thu Oct 19 19:11:34 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: graywyvern@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_1_0); 20 Oct 2000 02:11:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 23300 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2000 02:11:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m2.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Oct 2000 02:11:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.237.165) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Oct 2000 02:11:33 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:21:16 -0700 Received: from 209.176.48.26 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 21:21:16 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.176.48.26] To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: Re: literalism [was: Re: [lojban] Re: looking at arjlujv.txt Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 21:21:16 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Oct 2000 21:21:16.0989 (UTC) FILETIME=[844DD6D0:01C03A12] From: "michael helsem" >From: pycyn@aol.com li'o ><< words that don't mean what they're supposed to mean. >> >Whence this "supposed"? li'o Well, without half trying i pull up CICTI'A for "storm" (i suggest TIMCAI), which really means 'undomesticated weather', a concept which may puzzle those from cultures where "wild weather" is not a common kenning. Or SEZYKARNI for "diary" (i suggest XA'UNRO'A), which seems more appropriate for "zine", since a KARNI is something published & distributed in bookstores... li'o ><having the longer, more accurate forms available for the same meanings.>> >Whoa! If it has the same meaning, how is it more accurate? i meant, of course, "more completely descriptive terms for the same referent". (i should've written it in lojban.) li'o >Would you care to remind us what they are and how they fit in Tanru are "binary compounds". Kennings are "compound metaphors", often of two units & thus deceptively resembling the former. In tanru, the modifying gismu limits the scope of the modified, or together they specify the area of their overlap. A kenning paints a picture; one term sets the context, the other makes a metaphorical substitution that suggests the referent WITHIN this context (famous example: "tunafish is 'chicken of the sea'"). A kenning is really a kind of naming (hence my ME LA). "Rug rats" does not mean LOLTAXFU RATCU & it would be seriously misleading to turn this into a lujvo... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.