From xod@sixgirls.org Fri Oct 20 12:07:03 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: xod@sixgirls.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_1_0); 20 Oct 2000 19:07:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 12622 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2000 19:07:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m2.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Oct 2000 19:07:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO erika.sixgirls.org) (209.208.150.50) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Oct 2000 19:07:01 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by erika.sixgirls.org (8.11.0+3.3W/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e9KJ70H04500 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:07:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:06:59 -0400 (EDT) To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] RE:literalism In-Reply-To: <22.cb964bb.2721ef08@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Invent Yourself On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 pycyn@aol.com wrote: > xod: > < "reasonable" size. Also, information is lost in the tanru --> lujvo > process (lujvoization? lujvoizing?) because 1. we drop cmavo, 2. we select > one of many possible meanings. So I must disagree that tanru and lujvo > face the same issues.>> > There are an infinite number of lujvo, too, and tanru are also limited (by > human capacity) to a"reasonable size" (in fact, probably less complex than > reasonable lujvo, because tanru are longer, by and large). We *can* drop > cmavo, but don't have to (and literalists don't even like to), we obviously > select one meaning for a tanru each time we use it -- and it would be really > bad form to select a different meaning each time we use it, especially in the > same context. But yes, lujvo meaning gets fixed, tanru meaning -- outside of > a context -- does not (officially). But how does that save the situation in > a given case, which is largely what is at issue here: the meaning of the > tanru (and of the lujvo) should be, the literalist says, a rule governed (and > my ordering of rules at that) product of its components else it is wrong, > bad, inaccurate, malwhatever, etc. The two cases seem exactly on a par. We fight hard battles over lujvo because we have to. The prononents of each plausible tanru duke it out for the right to occupy a certain lujvo. They have to invoke arguments which are moot in the freeform coexistence available to tanru. Do recall that I advocate very long tanru as being Good Lojbanic Style. ni'o A metaphor: "pc is a yam." A simile: "pc is like a yam." Meta: it would be nice if you left a blank line between the quoted text you delimit with "<<", and your response. ----- "...widespread, systematic and gross violations of human rights perpetrated by the Israeli occupying power, in particular mass killings...measures which constitute...crimes against humanity.'' UN Commission on Human Rights, 19 Oct 2000