From phma@oltronics.net Sun Dec 03 14:42:11 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: phma@oltronics.net X-Apparently-To: lojban@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 3 Dec 2000 22:42:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 40525 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2000 22:42:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Dec 2000 22:42:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.oltronics.net) (204.213.85.8) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Dec 2000 23:43:12 -0000 Received: from neofelis (root@localhost) by mail.oltronics.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA13825 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 17:41:52 -0500 X-BlackMail: 207.15.133.49, neofelis, , 207.15.133.49 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 17:41:54(EST) on December 03, 2000 To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] de-, un- ce zo'e Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 17:33:50 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.29.2] Content-Type: text/plain References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <0012031741470G.11907@neofelis> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Pierre Abbat On Sun, 03 Dec 2000, pycyn@aol.com wrote: > >The encrypt/decrypt set is obviously only one of a large set of do/undo pairs >and, rather than getting too bound in the messinesses of a single case or so, >we might look for a general solution. None of the obvious seem quite right: >{tol} has been examined already, {na'e} gets the wrong results too often, >{fa'e} regverses orders but in fact the order of steps in the process is >often not reversed but the reversal comes in a different place (the steps in >coding and decoding are often the same, just the nature of the input differs >-- though, of course, there are many cases where the two processes are quite >different, but still not reversals), and {dut} is almost the same as {tol} at >least in definition. So we need to rethink what is involved here and work >more on it. The confusion is at least largely from the presence in English of two prefixes un-. One means "not" and is the cognate of German un-, Latin in-, Greek an-, and Russian ne-; the other means "opposite" and is the cognate of German ent-, Greek anti-, and nothing springs to mind in Russian. They can often be applied to the same word: a string can be untied, meaning that it is not tied and may never have been tied; or it can be untied, meaning that someone unties it. phma