[Wikichanges] Wiki page BPFK Section: Attitudinal Modifiers changed by admin

[webmaster@lojban.org]

The page BPFK Section: Attitudinal Modifiers was changed by admin at 03:52 UTC

You can view the page by following this link:
 
http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK%20Section%3A%20Attitudinal%20Modifiers

You can view a diff back to the previous version by following this link: 
http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-pagehistory.php?page=BPFK%20Section%3A%20Attitudinal%20Modifiers&compare=1&oldver=14&newver=15


***********************************************************
The changes in this version follow below, followed after by the current full page text.
***********************************************************


+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
@@ -Lines: 290-293 changed to +Lines: 290-295 @@
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

! Issues
+ 
+ dai is a giant clusterfuck; see notes here and also http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/browse_frm/thread/fba2085b67e7d26a -- camgusmis, Nov 2011

1. Is "dai" about emotions you feel out of empathy, or emotions you perceive in others?




***********************************************************
The new page content follows below.
***********************************************************

! Proposed Definitions And Examples


!! Proposed Definition of ''be'u''

;__be'u__ (UI5):  Attitudinal modifier.  Used to express lack of something.  When used as a modifier on another attitudinal, it indicates that the modified emotion is caused by or associated with a lack of something; it does not show a lack of the modified emotion. This word comprises a scale, along with "be'u cai" and "be'u nai".  See also "be'u cai" and "be'u nai" the preface. (cf. claxu, nitcu, mansa)
** Keywords: lack, lacking, lack of, without, missing, at a loss for, bereft of, in want of, barren of, no ... at all, not at all

!! Examples of ''be'u'' Usage

;''be'u'':Many possible meanings, such as, "It's not here," "This is not enough." %%% (lacking something does not comment on sufficiency; I think "Something's missing" is closer.)
;''.u'ibe'u'':"Surprisingly related/due to a lack of something," or perhaps, "Heh heh, not enough."%%%(.u'i means amused, not surprised. I suggest one interpretation "Giddy from having nothing left to lose" instead.)%%%
%%%
fenso lo se vecnu be do bei le se marji bei le .iu jdima be'o fo be'u lo cilta be ti be'o%%%
"Sewing together the thing you sold to the components for the cost with thread (which I need) made of this stuff." (-_- I don't know. -Lindar )

!! Proposed Definition of ''be'u cu'i''

;__be'u cu'i__ (UI*5):  Attitudinal modifier.  Used to express presence {MORE DETAILS}.  This word comprises a scale, along with "OTHER1" and "OTHER2".  See also OTHER1, OTHER2, the preface. 
** Keywords:

!! Examples of ''be'u cu'i'' Usage

be'ucu'i mi nelci le lojbo casnu%%%
Ahh, I like Lojbanic conversation.

!! Proposed Definition of ''be'u nai''

;__be'u nai__ (UI*5):  Attitudinal modifier.  Used to express satiation {MORE DETAILS}.  This word comprises a scale, along with "OTHER1" and "OTHER2".  See also OTHER1, OTHER2, the preface. 
** Keywords:

!! Examples of ''be'u nai'' Usage

ko pinxe so'a be'u nai cai dai ckafi%%%
Drink most, which will definitely sate you, of the coffee.

!! Proposed Definition of ''dai''

;__dai__ (UI5):  Attitudinal modifier.  Used to express empathy {MORE DETAILS}.   (cf. cnijmi)
** Keywords:

!! Examples of ''dai'' Usage

.y. la .clsn. sutra zmadu .i do jinga .ui dai %%%
Uhhh, Shoulsen quickly exceeded. You win. Yay you!

.oi le mi kibro cu xebni .iu nai dai mi
Ugh, my internet hates me.

!! Notes

{dai} seems to have two used meanings. First is expressing the emotions of others, the second is expressing the direction of the emotions at the listener (which is se'inai or se'icu'i). I've included two examples to show the different uses. -Lindar

!! Proposed Definition of ''fu'i''

;__fu'i__ (UI5):  Attitudinal modifier.  Used to express easy {MORE DETAILS}.  This word comprises a scale, along with "OTHER1".  See also OTHER1, OTHER2, the preface. (cf. frili)
** Keywords:

!! Examples of ''fu'i'' Usage

.i xu lo nu pilno la .emaks. fu'i dai rinka lo nu ruble degji fi do (slightly modified)%%%
Does using Emacs (which is probably easy for you) cause you to have weak fingers?

!! Proposed Definition of ''fu'i nai''

;__fu'i nai__ (UI*5):  Attitudinal modifier.  Used to express difficult {MORE DETAILS}.  This word comprises a scale, along with "OTHER1".  See also OTHER1, OTHER2, the preface. 
** Keywords:

!! Examples of ''fu'i nai'' Usage

mi krici lo du'u mi kakne lo nu cikre lo mi skami kei vau fu'inai (heavily edited, but usage/meaning kept)%%%
I despite a startling lack of evidence, I believe I may be able to repair my computer with much difficulty.

!! Proposed Definition of ''ga'i''

;__ga'i__ (UI5):  Attitudinal modifier/honorific.  Used to express hauteur {MORE DETAILS}.  This word comprises a scale, along with "OTHER1" and "OTHER2".  See also OTHER1, OTHER2, the preface. (cf. gapru, cnita)
** Keywords:

!! Examples of ''ga'i'' Usage

ni'o xu do za'o na'e jimpe fi lo se cusku be mi'a vau ga'i .ionai .u'i (heavily modified to due grammar fail, but the actual usage was amazingly interesting)%%%
Are you -still- not understanding what we're saying, 'sir'? =P

!! Proposed Definition of ''ga'i cu'i''

;__ga'i cu'i__ (UI*5):  Attitudinal modifier/honorific.  Used to express equal rank {MORE DETAILS}.  This word comprises a scale, along with "OTHER1" and "OTHER2".  See also OTHER1, OTHER2, the preface. 
** Keywords:

!! Examples of ''ga'i cu'i'' Usage

.i mi ro do ga'icu'i tavla%%%
I'm talking to you, my peers.

!! Proposed Definition of ''ga'i nai''

;__ga'i nai__ (UI*5):  Attitudinal modifier/honorific.  Used to express meekness {MORE DETAILS}.  This word comprises a scale, along with "OTHER1" and "OTHER2".  See also OTHER1, OTHER2, the preface. 
** Keywords:

!! Examples of ''ga'i nai'' Usage

.i ko ga'inai nenri klama le mi ganxo (quoted from that picture we all love)%%%
"I am an Esperantist."%%%
%%%
.i lo rectu be ko ku se canlu le briju vau ga'i nai%%%
Get your meat right into my office, you maggot.%%%
%%%
!! Proposed Definition of ''ju'o''

;__ju'o__ (UI5):  Attitudinal modifier.  Used to express certainty {MORE DETAILS}.  This word comprises a scale, along with "OTHER1" and "OTHER2".  See also OTHER1, OTHER2, the preface. (cf. birti, cumki)
** Keywords:

!! Examples of ''ju'o'' Usage
le puza selmri be by. noi ju'o do pu tcidu ke'a%%%
B (who must certainly be you)'s e-mail got read.%%%

!! Proposed Definition of ''ju'ocai''

;__ju'ocai__ (UI*5):  Attitudinal modifier.  Used to express quite certain {MORE DETAILS}.   

!! Problems
This should not be here. Why is this here and anything else + cai isn't? Vote to remove, plz. -Lindar

!! Proposed Definition of ''ju'o cu'i''

;__ju'o cu'i__ (UI*5):  Attitudinal modifier.  Used to express uncertainty {MORE DETAILS}.  This word comprises a scale, along with "OTHER1" and "OTHER2".  See also OTHER1, OTHER2, the preface. 
** Keywords:

!! Examples of ''ju'o cu'i'' Usage

.ii ju'o cu'i mi pu zi dukse citka%%%
Oh geez, I'm not sure, but I think I ate too much.

!! Proposed Definition of ''ju'o nai''

;__ju'o nai__ (UI*5):  Attitudinal modifier.  Used to express impossibility {MORE DETAILS}.  This word comprises a scale, along with "OTHER1" and "OTHER2".  See also OTHER1, OTHER2, the preface. 
** Keywords:

!! Examples of ''ju'o nai'' Usage

doi la eimis. do sruma lo du'u cumki lenu facki roda poi jetnu ju'onai (+mod)%%%
Eimi, you assume it's possible when you find the truth, which is impossible.

!! Proposed Definition of ''le'o''

;__le'o__ (UI5):  Attitudinal modifier.  Used to express aggressive {MORE DETAILS}.  This word comprises a scale, along with "OTHER1" and "OTHER2".  See also OTHER1, OTHER2, the preface. (cf. gunta, bandu)
** Keywords:

!! Examples of ''le'o'' Usage

le'o ro ko tinbe fi mi%%%
HEY! Everybody step in line! Follow me!

!! Proposed Definition of ''le'o cu'i''

;__le'o cu'i__ (UI*5):  Attitudinal modifier.  Used to express passive {MORE DETAILS}.  This word comprises a scale, along with "OTHER1" and "OTHER2".  See also OTHER1, OTHER2, the preface. 
** Keywords:

!! Examples of ''le'o cu'i'' Usage

le'ocu'i mi pu troci lenu slabu rinsa do%%%
Hey, I was trying to familiarly greet you.%%%
%%%
.i le'ocu'i do na bredi lo nu casnu lo kagni kei poi plixau
No worries, you aren't ready to talk about the company, which is useful.

!! Proposed Definition of ''le'o nai''

;__le'o nai__ (UI*5):  Attitudinal modifier.  Used to express defensive {MORE DETAILS}.  This word comprises a scale, along with "OTHER1" and "OTHER2".  See also OTHER1, OTHER2, the preface. 
** Keywords:

!! Examples of ''le'o nai'' Usage

lo go'i na danfu lo mi preti vau le'o nai%%%
That's the response to my question! :-(

!! Proposed Definition of ''ri'e''

;__ri'e__ (UI5):  Attitudinal modifier.  Used to express release of emotion {MORE DETAILS}.  This word comprises a scale, along with "OTHER1".  See also OTHER1, OTHER2, the preface. (cf. cniri'u, cnicru)
** Keywords:

!! Examples of ''ri'e'' Usage

zumri ri'e fa le te stagi be fi le spati be'o%%%
Corn... ah... is the plant containing edible portions. (wtf lojbot?)

!! Proposed Definition of ''ri'e nai''

;__ri'e nai__ (UI*5):  Attitudinal modifier.  Used to express restraint of emotion {MORE DETAILS}.  This word comprises a scale, along with "OTHER1".  See also OTHER1, OTHER2, the preface. 
** Keywords:

!! Examples of ''ri'e nai'' Usage

.o'o nai ri'e nai na jvojva%%%
Okay, yes, ehm... it's not a lojbanic rule, though, you see.

!! Proposed Definition of ''se'a''

;__se'a__ (UI5):  Attitudinal modifier.  Used to express self-sufficiency {MORE DETAILS}.  This word comprises a scale, along with "OTHER1".  See also OTHER1, OTHER2, the preface. (cf. sezysei, kantcu)
** Keywords:

!! Examples of ''se'a'' Usage

i mi'o se'a kakne secau lo'e xasyjukni%%%
We, by ourselves, are able to, without a typical crab.


!! Proposed Definition of ''se'a nai''

;__se'a nai__ (UI*5):  Attitudinal modifier.  Used to express dependency {MORE DETAILS}.  This word comprises a scale, along with "OTHER1".  See also OTHER1, OTHER2, the preface. 
** Keywords:

!! Examples of ''se'a nai'' Usage

ku'i lo ckafi to milxe kukte toi minji cu ze'e selplicru .ui .oi se'a nai
However, the coffee (mildly delicious) machine is always permitted for use. Yay, but ugh for caffeine! 

!! Proposed Definition of ''se'i''

;__se'i__ (UI5):  Attitudinal modifier.  Used to express self-oriented {MORE DETAILS}.  This word comprises a scale, along with "OTHER1".  See also OTHER1, OTHER2, the preface. (cf. sevzi, drata)
** Keywords:

!! Examples of ''se'i'' Usage

.i la gejyspa ba'e ku cusku vau .oi se'i%%%
Gejyspa is talking... eff me...

!! Proposed Definition of ''se'i nai''

;__se'i nai__ (UI*5):  Attitudinal modifier.  Used to express other-oriented {MORE DETAILS}.  This word comprises a scale, along with "OTHER1".  See also OTHER1, OTHER2, the preface. 
** Keywords:

!! Examples of ''se'i nai'' Usage

.i .e'o ko te lisri tu'a ko'a ca lo bavlamdei .a'u sai .ui .a'o se'i nai ro'i
Hey, could you tell a story about it tomorrow? I'm very interested, and I hope you can.

!! Proposed Definition of ''vu'e''

;__vu'e__ (UI5):  Attitudinal modifier.  Used to express virtue {MORE DETAILS}.  This word comprises a scale, along with "OTHER1".  See also OTHER1, OTHER2, the preface. (cf. vrude, zungi)
** Keywords:

!! Examples of ''vu'e'' Usage

ko tcidu .i ba'anai do pante vu'e le za'i le banrglico cu bangu le jboskepre%%%
Read it. As I remember, you protested quite virtuously the fact that English was the language of the Lojban material.

!! Proposed Definition of ''vu'e nai''

;__vu'e nai__ (UI*5):  Attitudinal modifier.  Used to express sin {MORE DETAILS}.  This word comprises a scale, along with "OTHER1".  See also OTHER1, OTHER2, the preface. 
** Keywords:

!! Examples of ''vu'e nai'' Usage

na go'i .i ko se gunma ty. .i'i vu'enai
Not so. Be a follower of T.

!! Proposed Definition of ''zo'o''

;__zo'o__ (UI5):  Attitudinal modifier.  Used to express humorously {MORE DETAILS}.  This word comprises a scale, along with "OTHER1" and "OTHER2".  See also OTHER1, OTHER2, the preface. (cf. xajmi, junri)
** Keywords:

!! Examples of ''zo'o'' Usage

!! Proposed Definition of ''zo'o cu'i''

;__zo'o cu'i__ (UI*5):  Attitudinal modifier.  Used to express dully {MORE DETAILS}.  This word comprises a scale, along with "OTHER1" and "OTHER2".  See also OTHER1, OTHER2, the preface. 
** Keywords:

!! Examples of ''zo'o cu'i'' Usage

zo'o cu'i ru'a mi ca lo nu lo ba'o pampe'o cu cliva lo zdani be mi cu tavla vo'a fo la lojban%%%
Seriously, I postulate that I am, right after my ex-girlfriend leaves my house, going to talk to myself in Lojban.

!! Proposed Definition of ''zo'o nai''

;__zo'o nai__ (UI*5):  Attitudinal modifier.  Used to express seriously {MORE DETAILS}.  This word comprises a scale, along with "OTHER1" and "OTHER2".  See also OTHER1, OTHER2, the preface. 
** Keywords:

!! Examples of ''zo'o nai'' Usage

zo'o nai na xajmi mi%%%
No. I don't find that very funny.

! Notes

Propose to change zo'o scale to (humorously - seriously - solemnly) instead of the current scale of (humorously - dully - seriously). Usage varies a lot, so while nobody knows how it works anyway, let's match it up to a scale that's more like the other scales. - Lindar

* ''UI5'' should be ''CAI''. ''UI'' doesn't modify ''UI'', ''CAI'' does. — donri
! Impact

! Issues

dai is a giant clusterfuck; see notes here and also http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/browse_frm/thread/fba2085b67e7d26a -- camgusmis, Nov 2011

1. Is "dai" about emotions you feel out of empathy, or emotions you perceive in others?

1a. If I say ".uidai", am I expressing your (and/or a third party's) happiness and/or observing that you seem to be happy, or am I expressing my own happiness derived from empathetic reactions to your experiences? That is, is it closer to "You seem pleased" or to "I'm happy for you"? Does ".oidai" imply ".oi"?

1b. Relatedly: is ".uedai" remotely close in meaning to "Surprise!" as one would yell when surprising somebody?

1c. How does one say "oooh, that must have hurt" in Lojban? The "oooh" part is clearly some sort of attitudinal-like expression lacking a truth value, like a Lojban UI, but can it be ".oidai" if the speaker does not wish to express that they are experiencing any sort of pain?

Note that all of this has a lot of bearing on the debate about "da'oi," because some da'oi advocates claim it functions semantically as being like "dai" but with a specified referent, but seem to base this description on the presumption that "dai" is more observational than it is expressive of an internal sentiment. It has also been described as a shortcut for "peipaunaidoi" but the two definitions do not seem compatible to me. (Not that this part is directly relevant to the BPFK, since"da'oi" is an unofficial experimental cmavo, but that's part of why this discussion is happening right now.)

Per rlpowell's request, I'll put here that I've used {dai nai} to emphasize that it's my own emotions being mentioned, and {dai cu'i} for "you and me both, brother".


! Poll

{POLL(pollId=>30)}BPFK Poll: Attitudinal Modifiers{POLL}



_______________________________________________
Wikichanges mailing list
Wikichanges@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/wikichanges