Received: from mail-pa0-f60.google.com ([209.85.220.60]:63256) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1ThLCa-0003U6-Uq; Sat, 08 Dec 2012 06:16:34 -0800 Received: by mail-pa0-f60.google.com with SMTP id hz1sf1095694pad.25 for ; Sat, 08 Dec 2012 06:16:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=0jKp9aEHbfRGZWhm/3fYsDJGCsPLrfMSoxLsH+2uBVk=; b=J/Tb3FQtO9dAJcRd1mCJvrZkrl27BWSY91t9IryQS41INQLvxpdgIirSieDVPXdEzk c7jVNqDUDOosle7gaG0d7/+eEl5ypWmbtZvf/WPe05oS3yiqdetDNlt9JHVE/PwFKBXK TLIcaJZuTqeEMBFNKVVlazujp4M8BiIRGC0P+mCegyKeSqHNe5aSGZ/BM+WIaLxc6dCG XuwT0R4TrYAYNQiIH//0/WnQZ6MxVMyaLP8XlBVqhLtZz8WZiU2OatV/Wp7Ul1MO0JYB pzbiZrkLp++/CnxczPXenDkqKSuOaaYp1MctbYeAjz/DxPdUUle1o8U2lxSa3wyvJcsk aUmg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=0jKp9aEHbfRGZWhm/3fYsDJGCsPLrfMSoxLsH+2uBVk=; b=0fPCn2oaU49/cjuNnmd6n0z1+NdrnRBrjz1b3UAtKkw7UYeqP19nCu3vl1K86DkNTf 1t8RHg9oayEbpUq0RwHlUUceLoSgn5KbRTavUGgijkTf3K5lNJI2ft7H0qqlF2G8OI30 GsYlWFdnL2yyhaXfijC9vL0qjLYCWANG5UTTgiLyr8Jf1lZt9iPUBbxfiMCiqNQUa6AK B5PO299JwHkFScIROwzsFyojioJee2EAioccGLhHweAHtLCYkvHzON7O0lB8GhJuSLZ5 xNv9FI7J6Uv4oaI2eszeCLrfclsYdj4Wd2fVMM2KmRdnjJ4azPJnzD+ZJdez7u1mIAhs Ohww== Received: by 10.50.45.226 with SMTP id q2mr916830igm.0.1354976178415; Sat, 08 Dec 2012 06:16:18 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.195.233 with SMTP id ih9ls435994igc.25.canary; Sat, 08 Dec 2012 06:16:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.66.78.161 with SMTP id c1mr1706552pax.16.1354976177715; Sat, 08 Dec 2012 06:16:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.66.78.161 with SMTP id c1mr1706551pax.16.1354976177704; Sat, 08 Dec 2012 06:16:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pb0-f46.google.com (mail-pb0-f46.google.com [209.85.160.46]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id yl8si2985255pbc.1.2012.12.08.06.16.17 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 08 Dec 2012 06:16:17 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.46 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.160.46; Received: by mail-pb0-f46.google.com with SMTP id wy7so962893pbc.5 for ; Sat, 08 Dec 2012 06:16:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.218.97 with SMTP id pf1mr23810224pbc.96.1354976177620; Sat, 08 Dec 2012 06:16:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.66.88.200 with HTTP; Sat, 8 Dec 2012 06:16:17 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5406c1d2-ee78-4b41-ab68-06b7cf99dce7@googlegroups.com> References: <95cdbee4-7ddc-4f7d-bb48-4591b7c3d915@googlegroups.com> <50C10003.1080806@lojban.org> <5406c1d2-ee78-4b41-ab68-06b7cf99dce7@googlegroups.com> Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2012 11:16:17 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bpfk] polysemy of {nai} From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.46 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 972099695765 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 6:35 AM, la gleki wrote: > > Anyway, I want all types of negation to fit on the same scheme. > Last time when I draw a similar scheme I could completely solve (at least > for myself) the problem of subjunctives in lojban. > Now it's time for negation. Negation is acheved with "na" or "na'e". They both have the same meaning, just different scopes. "na'e" can pretty much be replaced with "me lo na" and "na" can pretty much be replaced with "na'e ke ... ke'e be ... bei ... bei ...". "to'e" is not really negation, it is "opposite" or "antonym": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposite_(semantics) Calling it "negation" is just one of those weird Lojbanic eccentricities. "no'e" expresses the midpoint between something and its opposite, so it only really works with gradable antonyms. "na'i" is a kind of negation, although what it negates is not explicit in the discourse. It negates a presupposition, something that is taken for granted as true, and therefore is not expressed. So na'i says that a sentence cannot be evaluated as either true or false because something prior that needs to be satisfied to even make sense of the sentence is not being satisfied. Once the presupposition is expressed explicitly, it can be negated with "na", as usual. "na'i" just indicates that there is something unexpressed that wants to be negated. So "na'i" is a metalinguistic "na". "nai" changes the meaning of the preceding word to something with the same function but different meaning, usually but not always an opposite meaning. ".enai" for example is not really the opposite of ".e" (indeed it is not clear what the opposite of ".e" would be, not every word has a clear opposite). ".enai" is a logical connective whose truth table is related to the truth table of ".e" in some systematic way that can be explained using negation. mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BPFK" group. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list?hl=en.