Received: from mail-da0-f57.google.com ([209.85.210.57]:56241)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <bpfk-list+bncBDF6HJ7E2ACRBSHKR6DAKGQEZ2MMJ6I@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1ThWUp-0007Ko-J2; Sat, 08 Dec 2012 18:20:10 -0800
Received: by mail-da0-f57.google.com with SMTP id q27sf1142991daj.2
        for <multiple recipients>; Sat, 08 Dec 2012 18:19:53 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:references:from:in-reply-to:mime-version
         :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type
         :content-transfer-encoding;
        bh=dUTu0J2EgRv9Jqlssymho3Ei2rAmJR4w6LHtg7kPPNk=;
        b=CZOEQMAam6ZKhAvhwQu51hxbDitaZlCQeD1j05JwQhfsW8sY0LyyTjOYh5sKQdaLf1
         5CycmKjjSfodlRSQfnQ+XwlrDTNeaSKMsXo7GRsSRw80UQIGOfRXQYZE2Uzy/B9Hd+2I
         tn0r7qXs++AyGU2Kbc8MnO0t6Wt98Bt6l54jGtUcgjTGvhFVTQKsr21ub9lrefzoNvKG
         i7lIN3W6yDFWqdAWdo5HIVZEuNWfOF/9IQMCnzceqXVv2fjxq9aAflxopv8b6VIvVRpW
         6ydAOOL0k5UmJeINGrmY5LOi5uaQfvcLalbgrO7OaONLTl4RsYBWf0ogrNCpmDrmB2nk
         /Abg==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:references:from:in-reply-to:mime-version
         :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type
         :content-transfer-encoding;
        bh=dUTu0J2EgRv9Jqlssymho3Ei2rAmJR4w6LHtg7kPPNk=;
        b=Di+UnH67wPm9H19RBseqC6bWz8w+5TcuhuvEKcF5MD1w+i77zly4IoVWIA1TNT9NJN
         lOIC/2mM8bHeTrQKSapbdi49moP+netUbFjav8pF9rHJPUjDk77kGEcqZmRV8cdrVCLf
         fonDvcNCEoBAcn5z3/PB3/84kQCPtCnwj4qD/RcGHE1xgU/6NIF7RHBBU3ALiLxN9oGw
         +uaBGJ+JmEKQpw7Vouzhi1SLHnSvAoFGzhkn5QzxoyoVzU50cyQj5caSw4KNWr5vMRKg
         TmiILHOt/iCueZLcCDe8E/Cl0Y/9tpKjGmnOxxXfV1g6y+1UbjEvPr2Iw1QpULKDuzR3
         /UDg==
Received: by 10.50.11.196 with SMTP id s4mr1270826igb.9.1355019592890;
        Sat, 08 Dec 2012 18:19:52 -0800 (PST)
X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.50.178.99 with SMTP id cx3ls741508igc.33.gmail; Sat, 08 Dec
 2012 18:19:52 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.50.173.68 with SMTP id bi4mr3424257igc.1.1355019592480;
        Sat, 08 Dec 2012 18:19:52 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.50.96.228 with SMTP id dv4msigb;
        Sat, 8 Dec 2012 12:07:10 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.42.80.140 with SMTP id v12mr6670848ick.5.1354997230204;
        Sat, 08 Dec 2012 12:07:10 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.42.80.140 with SMTP id v12mr6670844ick.5.1354997230158;
        Sat, 08 Dec 2012 12:07:10 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-ie0-f175.google.com (mail-ie0-f175.google.com [209.85.223.175])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id x4si169081igm.0.2012.12.08.12.07.10
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
        Sat, 08 Dec 2012 12:07:10 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of dbrockman@gmail.com designates 209.85.223.175 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.223.175;
Received: by mail-ie0-f175.google.com with SMTP id qd14so4617880ieb.6
        for <bpfk-list@googlegroups.com>; Sat, 08 Dec 2012 12:07:10 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.50.173.106 with SMTP id bj10mr2654426igc.13.1354997230041;
 Sat, 08 Dec 2012 12:07:10 -0800 (PST)
References: <95cdbee4-7ddc-4f7d-bb48-4591b7c3d915@googlegroups.com>
 <50C10003.1080806@lojban.org> <5406c1d2-ee78-4b41-ab68-06b7cf99dce7@googlegroups.com>
 <CAO7tK2cyQEHTbnSkMnZBwZakreVSq4Q+_EdVQHmhv9Q8O5ao8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <20121208182108.GI30125@mercury.ccil.org> <CAO7tK2e3_rjxi5j7-T6r_ivVEbdFtehJpzeS3QMdRAMaCsFXKQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20121208194909.GK30125@mercury.ccil.org>
From: Daniel Brockman <dbrockman@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <20121208194909.GK30125@mercury.ccil.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2012 20:59:03 +0100
Message-ID: <-2630662732168703446@unknownmsgid>
Subject: Re: [bpfk] polysemy of {nai}
To: "bpfk-list@googlegroups.com" <bpfk-list@googlegroups.com>
X-Original-Sender: dbrockman@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 domain of dbrockman@gmail.com designates 209.85.223.175 as permitted sender)
 smtp.mail=dbrockman@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <bpfk-list.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 972099695765
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:bpfk-list@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:bpfk-list+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list?hl=en_US>
Sender: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:bpfk-list+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:googlegroups-manage+972099695765+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/)
X-Spam_score: -0.1
X-Spam_score_int: 0
X-Spam_bar: /

On 8 dec 2012, at 20:49, John Cowan <cowan@mercury.ccil.org> wrote:

> Jorge Llamb=EDas scripsit:
>
>> I don't think you can use "mi na'e klama le zarci" to affirm that you
>> are coming from the store. You can only use it to affirm that the
>> relationship between you and the store, whatever that relationship may
>> be, is other than "klama".
>
> Exactly, and what I am affirming (though not explicitly) is that the
> relationship is "se te klama".  In English, if I ask "Are you going to
> the store", I may reply "I'm not *going* to the store", with sentential
> stress on "going".  This is "na'e", whereas "I'm not going to the store"
> without sentential stress may be "na'e" or "na", depending on context.
> (I don't know how you make this contrast in the Romance languages.)
>
> This is clearer if we look at sumti scalar negation with "na'e bo".
> "mi klama na'e bo le zarci" definitely affirms that I went somewhere,
> it just wasn't the store.  "mi na klama le zarci" makes no such claim.

Jorge's original claim though was that {mi na klama le zarci} is
equivalent to {na'e klama be fa mi bei le zarci}.

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
BPFK" group.
To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googleg=
roups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-l=
ist?hl=3Den.