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Message-ID: <5220A04F.1070603@lojban.org>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 09:38:23 -0400
From: Robert LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban.org>
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To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [bpfk] Changing the definitions of {ba'o} and {co'i}
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la gleki wrote:
> 1.
>
> ba'o is currently defined (according to CLL
> <http://dag.github.io/cll/10/10/>) as
>
>       ba'o    ZAhO                perfective
>
>
> If we are to use normal linguistic terminology then this is wrong.
>
> {ba'o} is perfect, not perfective - those are completely different things.
> According to Wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_tense> it's
> better to avoid using the term "perfect" and change to "retrospective".
>
> So I propose changing the definition of ba'o to
>
>       ba'o    ZAhO                retrospective
>
>
>
> 2.
>
> As for "perfective" it looks like it's expressed using {co'i}.
> Another independent proposal is that co'i should be defined as
>
>       co'i    ZAhO                perfective/achievative
>
>
> "perfective" is used quite extensively when describing Chinese and
> Russian grammar so normalising terminology is a must pe'i.
>
> Neither proposal changes anything in Lojban itself, only in translation.


I don't necessarily have a problem with such a change (especially since 
I've been an incompetent student of Russian for 20+ years now), but 
would like pc's input.  IIRC, the terminology came from his exposition 
to me of tense logic's terminology used for Aristotelian events, and pc 
was at the time a specialist in tense logic.

The "perfective" term, IIRC, was consistent with the "superfective" term 
(za'o itself), for which I don't know any other linguistic equivalent.

So the choice may be between using linguistic terminology or tense logic 
terminology.

I've cc'd this message to pc to make sure that he sees it.

lojbab

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