Received: from mail-yh0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]:38257) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Xg72P-0004s5-4c; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 00:06:01 -0700 Received: by mail-yh0-f61.google.com with SMTP id c41sf801880yho.16 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 00:05:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=0WZBQV/QsKaTMaTtM2XFcfQv6dCAygJ5nPaZH15NK6w=; b=fJfI5UBFgX4g/ahFL7ePqUhHQkaT0zYf2LYWchkHtQyPgmy0LWoX+l/LmzkU5H+DgQ 08eE4d6tFDzPjPlkhjGFrSH3RplhXh2gh9VS4w2qZnOeSLTtOVrrcjss2/H8dNMRvEbP g2YDTDLmPr8YKjAJ3YKFRwXQbOt4trAdIh+ttKISlsv0T034mvE1DUK6lsaCdy3f+h8U y/uZ9aGwFVTA9K52QH+R4Ed9wQNCZxvstmoy3zo04pcqhrbDfgZAkYWIs4L5ccoo+o8T 3bGwqO4zM3NjEb8rrkec3U9d7Pxrge9doO02BW7h1tO0SfI70aFia8eKNPBLCKNMhwZz dkUw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=0WZBQV/QsKaTMaTtM2XFcfQv6dCAygJ5nPaZH15NK6w=; b=LkUtKiC16EvLroQ7pzor98Rs+bVmV3+VBpMyjIEWKpsUboEfD6lSWa6cFDp6KdNfmf XWKu2BMTw6xews9viQY8BI7POnc4Cw0GnXz0MqDiOCsju7eCnvoTDPBqrQsgfeLRtMWy izymgxw4yc7tYiIDOArTQS38/9OeItfMCsG+89WPxSKi26lZP80KBpbJcxYYnF1UkKIQ lLzbkWTo+7pGidwXrx7TXd0wgFZ+jVuqCU9cliFIkUFTaUQd5gZ1uSVItXr7gCC9MHHw JIEVgT327ypw20+I7mvWtqJelnpOC2k2oeZ/8edsS8WOPETPW4l59hi/Wm/32UNRrlw8 3Jng== X-Received: by 10.50.50.140 with SMTP id c12mr153806igo.15.1413788744925; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 00:05:44 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.107.164.26 with SMTP id n26ls1570901ioe.42.gmail; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 00:05:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.136.197 with SMTP id qc5mr158367igb.6.1413788744799; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 00:05:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 00:05:42 -0700 (PDT) From: guskant To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20141020065022.GA16880@mercury.ccil.org> References: <20141020065022.GA16880@mercury.ccil.org> Subject: Re: [bpfk] official cmavo form MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: gusni.kantu@gmail.com Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 972099695765 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2985_2079095485.1413788743033" X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- ------=_Part_2985_2079095485.1413788743033 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Le lundi 20 octobre 2014 15:50:23 UTC+9, John Cowan a =C3=A9crit : > > Gleki Arxokuna scripsit:=20 > > > I suggest disallowing at least /^C[iu]V$/ cmavo like {kia} for some tim= e=20 > > I suggest disallowing them forever.=20 > > I agree. I should point out that a fu'ivla creator should think of "jiebroda test"= =20 for fu'ivla morphology if "consonant glide" is allowed for cmavo. If both= =20 cmavo and fu'ivla may include "consonant glide", "jiebroda" is not a=20 fu'ivla (or zi'evla) but two words "jie broda". In order to make it fu'ivla= =20 form, we should modify it, for example, to "djiebroda" or "ji'ezbroda". Actually, vlatai of jbofi'e says "jie" is not a lojban word, "jiebroda",=20 "djiebroda" and "ji'ezbroda" are fu'ivla (stage-4), while camxes says "jie"= =20 is cmavo, "jiebroda" is two words, "djiebroda" is not a lojban word, and=20 "ji'ezbroda" is fu'ivla. Whether cmavo with "consonant glide" is allowed or not is very important=20 for defining Lojban phonology. I, who have been believed that "consonant=20 glide" is basically a kind of non-lojban sound, I have not been much=20 careful in listening and speaking "je". If "jie" is allowed as cmavo, I=20 should change my attitude, and be careful whether the pronunciation is "je"= =20 or "jie". Please, BPFK-members, make clear the decision on this matter.=20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= BPFK" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_2985_2079095485.1413788743033 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Le lundi 20 octobre 2014 15:50:23 UTC+9, John Cowa= n a =C3=A9crit :
Gleki Arx= okuna scripsit:

> I suggest disallowing at least /^C[iu]V$/ cmavo like {kia} for som= e time

I suggest disallowing them forever.


I agree.

I should point out that a fu'ivla= creator should think of "jiebroda test" for fu'ivla morphology if "consona= nt glide" is allowed for cmavo. If both cmavo and fu'ivla may include "cons= onant glide", "jiebroda" is not a fu'ivla (or zi'evla) but two words "jie b= roda". In order to make it fu'ivla form, we should modify it, for example, = to "djiebroda" or "ji'ezbroda".

Actually, vlatai of jbofi'e says "ji= e" is not a lojban word, "jiebroda", "djiebroda" and "ji'ezbroda" are fu'iv= la (stage-4), while camxes says "jie" is cmavo, "jiebroda" is two words, "d= jiebroda" is not a lojban word, and "ji'ezbroda" is fu'ivla.

Whether= cmavo with "consonant glide" is allowed or not is very important for defin= ing Lojban phonology. I, who have been believed that "consonant glide" is b= asically a kind of non-lojban sound, I have not been much careful in listen= ing and speaking "je". If "jie" is allowed as cmavo, I should change my att= itude, and be careful whether the pronunciation is "je" or "jie". Please, B= PFK-members, make clear the decision on this matter.

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