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Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 00:32:20 +0100
Message-ID: <CACf3dP=MVcAydpRv1LMog=btQnv29EhLYtvc_PqBOHGDB-h7oA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [bpfk] official cmavo form
From: And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com>
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On 20 Oct 2014 22:43, "Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas" <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 10:02 AM, And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Why must Lojban have onsets and syllabification? /Cia/ is problematic
only if /Ci-/ must constitute an onset.
>
>
> There's no special need to realize /Cia/ as one syllable, but it must be
counted as one syllable for penultimate stress rule purposes.

How come? Is it simply that because word-segmentation is sensitive to
stress, and stress is sensitive to syllabicity, varisyllabicity risks
undermining the consistency of the word-segmentation rules? If so, the
stress or word-segmentation rules can be reformulated so that VV counts as
a single metrical unit rather than a sequence of two.

> Formulating the rule without mentioning syllables would be more
complicated.

It's not yet clear to me that that is so, but that could be because I don't
know the rule.

> It also has to be distinguished from "ciia"

How come? Is "ciia" licit? Is it licit even if "cia" isn't?

>
>>> I see no problems with {ie'o} as a cmavo form.
>>
>>
>> How about {a'ua}?
>
>
> "a'ua" is currently not allowed by camxes, but "a'uua" is (it's two words=
)

Ah. So the two-word version needn't be "a'u.ua"? I had been thinking that
all words must begin with a consonant.

I would allow "a'ua" (assuming I was not allowed to kill /'/), disallow
"uu", and have all words begin with a consonant, but if "a'uua" must be a
variant of "a'u.ua" then I see why "a'ua" must be forbidden.

--And.

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<p dir=3D"ltr"><br>
On 20 Oct 2014 22:43, &quot;Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:jjllambias@gmail.com">jjllambias@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 10:02 AM, And Rosta &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:and.=
rosta@gmail.com">and.rosta@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Why must Lojban have onsets and syllabification? /Cia/ is problema=
tic only if /Ci-/ must constitute an onset.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; There&#39;s no special need to realize /Cia/ as one syllable, but it m=
ust be counted as one syllable for penultimate stress rule purposes.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">How come? Is it simply that because word-segmentation is sen=
sitive to stress, and stress is sensitive to syllabicity, varisyllabicity r=
isks undermining the consistency of the word-segmentation rules? If so, the=
 stress or word-segmentation rules can be reformulated so that VV counts as=
 a single metrical unit rather than a sequence of two.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">&gt; Formulating the rule without mentioning syllables would=
 be more complicated. </p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">It&#39;s not yet clear to me that that is so, but that could=
 be because I don&#39;t know the rule.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">&gt; It also has to be distinguished from &quot;ciia&quot;</=
p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">How come? Is &quot;ciia&quot; licit? Is it licit even if &qu=
ot;cia&quot; isn&#39;t?</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; I see no problems with {ie&#39;o} as a cmavo form.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; How about {a&#39;ua}?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &quot;a&#39;ua&quot; is currently not allowed by camxes, but &quot;a&#=
39;uua&quot; is (it&#39;s two words)</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Ah. So the two-word version needn&#39;t be &quot;a&#39;<a hr=
ef=3D"http://u.ua">u.ua</a>&quot;? I had been thinking that all words must =
begin with a consonant.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">I would allow &quot;a&#39;ua&quot; (assuming I was not allow=
ed to kill /&#39;/), disallow &quot;uu&quot;, and have all words begin with=
 a consonant, but if &quot;a&#39;uua&quot; must be a variant of &quot;a&#39=
;<a href=3D"http://u.ua">u.ua</a>&quot; then I see why &quot;a&#39;ua&quot;=
 must be forbidden.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">--And.</p>

<p></p>

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