Received: from mail-ob0-f185.google.com ([209.85.214.185]:34284)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.80.1)
	(envelope-from <bpfk-list+bncBCGJHDV3NEIKFUEWUICRUBAW7IZ6C@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1XgNHG-00057z-8V; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:26:26 -0700
Received: by mail-ob0-f185.google.com with SMTP id vb8sf22482obc.22
        for <multiple recipients>; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:26:11 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806;
        h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:references:mime-version:in-reply-to
         :user-agent:sender:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe
         :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition;
        bh=sGPMztXSRh9zOnHuoG2Xb6fWdNOarpixW8BohhujcdY=;
        b=r/m2ErN34Kg3YpSrx5wDF9JDMuuKKmcuM9v/qYS+2j7T5GvOq71WcO0XLUOUSo98ZR
         nhHDjwOlm8NntmGt/l0HwsWoCTIIaJsmZi7VtnYfUGFi3VXQTETc55KzDawu4o+I2H1Y
         KyXuZBei0+Fvs/2K98l73KrQmLd8JC2aLLFFWw2ysI9QOESo4tjPL+Uf2aLopY3tNzJc
         GFHpyq1/9NsAlwHu+dqBRFapC3QRFwkaNo1VancA+0KEi3PIFHr0W62yfy5LRiW6gfzh
         3AWI6DJyZcuDbR2wBerJhyYiaV8g1Yn60WAUwV7ZbtCj0OdQeZG+6oaEa/FPoC9wWJfA
         5dPg==
X-Received: by 10.140.18.133 with SMTP id 5mr271qgf.17.1413851170974;
        Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:26:10 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.140.105.227 with SMTP id c90ls23527qgf.52.gmail; Mon, 20 Oct
 2014 17:26:06 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 10.236.53.34 with SMTP id f22mr9237813yhc.51.1413851166878;
        Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:26:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from earth.ccil.org (earth.ccil.org. [192.190.237.11])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 19si694516igl.2.2014.10.20.17.26.06
        for <bpfk-list@googlegroups.com>
        (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
        Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:26:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of cowan@ccil.org designates 192.190.237.11 as permitted sender) client-ip=192.190.237.11;
Received: from cowan by earth.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.72)
	(envelope-from <cowan@ccil.org>)
	id 1XgNH3-0002vK-GI
	for bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 20:26:05 -0400
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 20:26:05 -0400
From: John Cowan <cowan@mercury.ccil.org>
To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [bpfk] official cmavo form
Message-ID: <20141021002605.GN14499@mercury.ccil.org>
References: <f9d06e26-31b2-43ac-897e-b3a21db84dad@googlegroups.com>
 <CAO7tK2eCaqLe2L7wJh7FmP2CW8BkL==jtm1nBqAbvjUbDC2syQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5444FEBF.10200@gmx.de>
 <544507CD.9050608@gmail.com>
 <20141020141316.GD14499@mercury.ccil.org>
 <54452760.2090305@gmail.com>
 <20141020194244.GK14499@mercury.ccil.org>
 <CACf3dPmR2NS-a_ouWEeRJZOhZQVYf_8vDXHJK1JiYRjObNWj6w@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CACf3dPmR2NS-a_ouWEeRJZOhZQVYf_8vDXHJK1JiYRjObNWj6w@mail.gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14)
Sender: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: cowan@ccil.org
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com;       spf=pass
 (google.com: domain of cowan@ccil.org designates 192.190.237.11 as permitted
 sender) smtp.mail=cowan@ccil.org
Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <bpfk-list.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 972099695765
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list/post>, <mailto:bpfk-list@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/>, <mailto:bpfk-list+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list/subscribe>, <mailto:bpfk-list+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:googlegroups-manage+972099695765+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>,
 <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list/subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-)
X-Spam_score: -1.9
X-Spam_score_int: -18
X-Spam_bar: -

And Rosta scripsit:

> But must Lojban so specify the duration of the /i/ in /ia/? That seems
> unnecessarily pernickety, given the quite proper laxity of all other
> realization rules in Lojban. If, rather, what is settled is that /i/ in
> /ia/ is an onset, then I am asking why that must be so.

Historically, I think it rose out of the introduction of ' to simplify the
Loglan pronunciation rules.  In Loglan there is no ', and therefore only
25 VV sequences rather than Lojban's 29 (ignoring "y" in both languages).
These 25 break into four groups according to pronunciation:

ai ei oi ao are always falling diphthongs (in practice, ao is pronounced
[aw] like Lojban au).

ae au ea eo eu oa oe ou are always two syllables; when e is the first,
it is allophonically [e] rather than [E].

aa ee oo are always two syllables *and* one of the syllables is required
to bear the stress (so words like "baarsoa" are invalid, unlike the
Lojban analogue "ba'ars'oa"); ee oo are very rare.

iV and uV may be pronounced either as rising diphthongs, as in Lojban, or
as two syllables: therefore "stomia" may be either ['stomja] or [sto'mia].

> But the contrast-preserving Lojbanist should instead say [ahua],

Easily confused with "a'u ua" [ahu?wa] > [ahuwa].

> or, more realistically, [aWua] or [axua].

The latter is "a xua"; [x] cannot be used as an allophonic fortition of [h].

-- 
John Cowan          http://www.ccil.org/~cowan        cowan@ccil.org
Not to perambulate the corridors during the hours of repose
in the boots of ascension.       --Sign in Austrian ski-resort hotel

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BPFK" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.