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Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 16:50:26 -0400
From: Alex Burka <durka42@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [bpfk] official cmavo form
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Side note: half of those fu'ivla (156 out of 310) have one or more of kingd=
om/phylum/class/order/family/genus/species in their definitions, suggesting=
 they are transliterated from Latin (I have not looked at the full list of =
words). So those may be fixable by simply changing CiV to CiiV, etc. =20

mu'o mi'e la durka =20


On Tuesday, October 21, 2014 at 2:57 PM, Alex Burka wrote:

> To make this more concrete, I went and did the search. Using an XML dump =
from yesterday, there are 342 valsi in jbovlaste (2 zei-lujvo, 2 experiment=
al cmavo, 28 cmevla, 310 fu'ivla) that contain C[iu]V. If I restrict C to s=
ibilants [jczs], there are only 52 (1 experimental cmavo, 4 cmevla, 47 fu'i=
vla).
> =20
> mu'o mi'e la durka =20
> =20
> On Monday, October 20, 2014 at 6:24 PM, Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas wrote:
> =20
> > =20
> > =20
> > On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 4:05 AM, guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com (mailto=
:gusni.kantu@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > > =20
> > > Whether cmavo with "consonant glide" is allowed or not is very import=
ant for defining Lojban phonology. I, who have been believed that "consonan=
t glide" is basically a kind of non-lojban sound, I have not been much care=
ful in listening and speaking "je". If "jie" is allowed as cmavo, I should =
change my attitude, and be careful whether the pronunciation is "je" or "ji=
e". Please, BPFK-members, make clear the decision on this matter. =20
> > =20
> > The question shouldn't be about cmavo. If CiV/CuV are disallowed it sho=
uld be for all words, since distinguishing prije from prijie is as hard or =
as easy as distinguishing je from jie. I currently find only three experime=
ntal cmavo in jbovlaste containing CiV/CuV, but there are lots of fu'ivla, =
so the proposal to disallow them should contemplate what is to be done with=
 all those fu'ivla (change them to something else? leave them in as archaic=
 words?) It would also be useful to know of how many words we are talking a=
bout.
> > =20
> > mu'o mi'e xorxes
> > =20
> > -- =20
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou=
ps "BPFK" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send =
an email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com (mailto:bpfk-list+unsubs=
cribe@googlegroups.com).
> > To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com (mailto=
:bpfk-list@googlegroups.com).
> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list.
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> =20

--=20
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                <div>
                    Side note: half of those fu'ivla (156 out of 310) have =
one or more of kingdom/phylum/class/order/family/genus/species in their def=
initions, suggesting they are transliterated from Latin (I have not looked =
at the full list of words). So those may be fixable by simply changing CiV =
to CiiV, etc.
                </div><div><br></div><div>mu'o mi'e la durka</div>
                <div></div>
                =20
                <p style=3D"color: #A0A0A8;">On Tuesday, October 21, 2014 a=
t 2:57 PM, Alex Burka wrote:</p>
                <blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"border-left-style:solid;=
border-width:1px;margin-left:0px;padding-left:10px;">
                    <span><div><div>
                <div>To make this more concrete, I went and did the search.=
 Using an XML dump from yesterday, there are 342 valsi in jbovlaste (2 zei-=
lujvo, 2 experimental cmavo, 28 cmevla, 310 fu'ivla) that contain C[iu]V. I=
f I restrict C to sibilants [jczs], there are only 52 (1 experimental cmavo=
, 4 cmevla, 47 fu'ivla).</div><div><br></div><div>mu'o mi'e la durka</div>
                =20
                 =20
                <p style=3D"color: #A0A0A8;">On Monday, October 20, 2014 at=
 6:24 PM, Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas wrote:</p><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>
                    <span><div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div><br><div>On M=
on, Oct 20, 2014 at 4:05 AM, guskant <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:gusni.kantu@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gusni.kantu@gmail.com</a>&gt;</s=
pan> wrote:<br><blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br>Whether cmavo with "conso=
nant glide" is allowed or not is very important for defining Lojban phonolo=
gy. I, who have been believed that "consonant glide" is basically a kind of=
 non-lojban sound, I have not been much careful in listening and speaking "=
je". If "jie" is allowed as cmavo, I should change my attitude, and be care=
ful whether the pronunciation is "je" or "jie". Please, BPFK-members, make =
clear the decision on this matter. <br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></=
div><div>The question shouldn't be about cmavo. If CiV/CuV are disallowed i=
t should be for all words, since distinguishing prije from prijie is as har=
d or as easy as distinguishing je from jie. I currently find only three exp=
erimental cmavo in jbovlaste containing CiV/CuV, but there are lots of fu'i=
vla, so the proposal to disallow them should contemplate what is to be done=
 with all those fu'ivla (change them to something else? leave them in as ar=
chaic words?) It would also be useful to know of how many words we are talk=
ing about.</div><div><br></div><div>mu'o mi'e xorxes</div><div><br></div></=
div></div></div>

<p></p>

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</div></div></span>
                 =20
                 =20
                 =20
                 =20
                </div></blockquote><div>
                    <br>
                </div>
            </div></div></span>
                =20
                =20
                =20
                =20
                </blockquote>
                =20
                <div>
                    <br>
                </div>
           =20

<p></p>

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