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Subject: Re: [bpfk] camxes and syllabification in zi'evla
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On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 4:26 PM, And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com> wrote:

> Alex Burka, On 25/10/2014 20:12:
>
>> I don't see how you could replace all consideration of consonant clusters
>> with CV + explicit buffer vowels. Wouldn't you lose the ability to specify
>> which clusters are valid, which ones are valid initially, etc?
>>
>
> You're quite right: these constraints on 'consonant clusters' cannot
> plausibly be phonological and must rather be morphophonological. The
> distribution of buffer vowels proves that phonological structure is
> essentially CV. While in principle, phonological constraints on Cs in /C%C/
> sequences are not implausible, the particular constraints Lojban wants to
> impose are. Therefore, any constraints on 'clusters' are more plausibly
> morphophonological. Morphophonological rules can do whatever you like.


Can we talk about "morphophonological syllables"? If yes, then assume this
discussion is basically about morphophonological syllables rather than
phonological ones. We need to identify these (at least to some extent) in
order to know how to break up a stream of phonemes into words.

Of course the morphophonological rules could have been much simpler than
what they are, that cannot be disputed.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 4:26 PM, And Rosta <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:and.rosta@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">and.rosta@gmail.com</a>&=
gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 =
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Alex Burka, On 25/10/20=
14 20:12:<span class=3D""><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I don&#39;t see how you could replace all consideration of consonant cluste=
rs with CV + explicit buffer vowels. Wouldn&#39;t you lose the ability to s=
pecify which clusters are valid, which ones are valid initially, etc?<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
You&#39;re quite right: these constraints on &#39;consonant clusters&#39; c=
annot plausibly be phonological and must rather be morphophonological. The =
distribution of buffer vowels proves that phonological structure is essenti=
ally CV. While in principle, phonological constraints on Cs in /C%C/ sequen=
ces are not implausible, the particular constraints Lojban wants to impose =
are. Therefore, any constraints on &#39;clusters&#39; are more plausibly mo=
rphophonological. Morphophonological rules can do whatever you like.</block=
quote><div><br></div><div>Can we talk about &quot;morphophonological syllab=
les&quot;? If yes, then assume this discussion is basically about morphopho=
nological syllables rather than phonological ones. We need to identify thes=
e (at least to some extent) in order to know how to break up a stream of ph=
onemes into words.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Of course the morphophono=
logical rules could have been much simpler than what they are, that cannot =
be disputed.</div><div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes</div><div><b=
r></div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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