Received: from mail-wi0-f192.google.com ([209.85.212.192]:64367)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.80.1)
	(envelope-from <bpfk-list+bncBCOZJTMR5YGRB24SWCRAKGQEW5IRJTY@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1Xi838-0001zB-Qv; Sat, 25 Oct 2014 13:35:07 -0700
Received: by mail-wi0-f192.google.com with SMTP id z2sf228638wiv.29
        for <multiple recipients>; Sat, 25 Oct 2014 13:34:51 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806;
        h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to
         :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to
         :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive
         :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=rT1E6BM2f1BPNno97kqzL9o5wdQ0cXroyzQYd2DjwIc=;
        b=txwhc2Ck8bxuEnqvuvRkoCCpDlj4S+Re5apOPz8v9v+RQW8Dq+miilDCZ2rEhRjiFj
         7i2kodM24zA57xVCz9CSVITONalyzRp/ZxKM5G/6iS8RtyCwcRrkMKiUy5+SsSZC3AGe
         X/K26I7de+sZJ8ardrkkYQZ8u05fjIC8T1VCV256+ip0QUmi0MoUqs2tw9Hj0ROkxIdF
         uRsn96yFWauyaWDHgiAWcCtWvFEJcTViG7B5F5mnkN2kCKyU+cYV717wqUSGGZ+Cq8RP
         YoAD3bJx1lbaF2ZupuQyyW3eXJgWgKL+2KfcJiD9oghQd9HIMPEyqe/0FsPkqjmoRXjo
         CR9A==
X-Received: by 10.180.82.202 with SMTP id k10mr38773wiy.1.1414269291317;
        Sat, 25 Oct 2014 13:34:51 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.180.74.41 with SMTP id q9ls284209wiv.23.gmail; Sat, 25 Oct
 2014 13:34:51 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 10.180.19.198 with SMTP id h6mr2212952wie.5.1414269291043;
        Sat, 25 Oct 2014 13:34:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-wg0-x22d.google.com (mail-wg0-x22d.google.com. [2a00:1450:400c:c00::22d])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ta1si280348wic.0.2014.10.25.13.34.51
        for <bpfk-list@googlegroups.com>
        (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
        Sat, 25 Oct 2014 13:34:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::22d as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c00::22d;
Received: by mail-wg0-f45.google.com with SMTP id l18so3220133wgh.16
        for <bpfk-list@googlegroups.com>; Sat, 25 Oct 2014 13:34:51 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.194.172.234 with SMTP id bf10mr24281wjc.81.1414269290934;
 Sat, 25 Oct 2014 13:34:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.217.105.201 with HTTP; Sat, 25 Oct 2014 13:34:50 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CAO7tK2d+_h498M+7jnuhTutY0-h6U3ZUj++2D0YM8ooMk72ZDg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <33A9DB5129C54FFF85FCDD708B6909D8@gmail.com>
	<CAO7tK2e9Ukj2MaEm-Xr9-dAenOM7wX4fSm1Ci8BKg-QSchswRQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<9c2066d4-8da6-48ec-9cfb-63f79ca42187@googlegroups.com>
	<CAO7tK2fJeQQUrvgo1MzP_XNMhk2or3c6yTERwvdREjM9F9uCKw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO7tK2eN1oc0JQyr0Rd6ESy-Giq7RW0UbMNRQfXs6K6MD-9fow@mail.gmail.com>
	<20141025153624.GA1727@mercury.ccil.org>
	<CAO7tK2c3huhqOQa25rKojYUszJGre5DCrmHwCABkC0sH_cH8NQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<544BF508.3060500@gmail.com>
	<24AD03E6AEA1476F9B53E0EE111750E9@gmail.com>
	<544BF94F.3040204@gmail.com>
	<CAO7tK2d+_h498M+7jnuhTutY0-h6U3ZUj++2D0YM8ooMk72ZDg@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2014 17:34:50 -0300
Message-ID: <CAO7tK2d1HEaJNgGPnFmC-0t_epj9G7xwBizqZ-yJ8Q-JhnfBaA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [bpfk] camxes and syllabification in zi'evla
From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Llamb=C3=ADas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com;       spf=pass
 (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::22d
 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com;       dkim=pass
 header.i=@gmail.com;       dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com
Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <bpfk-list.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 972099695765
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list/post>, <mailto:bpfk-list@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/>, <mailto:bpfk-list+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list
Sender: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list/subscribe>, <mailto:bpfk-list+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:googlegroups-manage+972099695765+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>,
 <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list/subscribe>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e013c6c24b3f8050506453ad8
X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-)
X-Spam_score: -1.9
X-Spam_score_int: -18
X-Spam_bar: -

--089e013c6c24b3f8050506453ad8
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjllambias@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> Can we talk about "morphophonological syllables"? If yes, then assume thi=
s
> discussion is basically about morphophonological syllables rather than
> phonological ones.
>

Actually, that's not quite true. We do need to identify valid onsets in
order to determine words, but this discussion wasn't really about onsets.

I would have to agree that if the buffer vowel was real, all this
discussion would be mostly nonsensical. So I would say that the buffer
vowel is basically a myth. None of the phonological constraints make much
sense if there was a buffer vowel. I don't think I've ever heard anyone
speak lojban with a buffer vowel, and it would probably sound very
confusing. Without a buffer vowel, it does make sense to limit the amount
of consonant clustering that can occur. If there was a buffer vowel, the
morphophonological syllable could still be onset-nucleus-coda as now, but
with the coda allowed to contain as many consonants as you wanted. That's
not how my dialect of lojban works though.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
BPFK" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--089e013c6c24b3f8050506453ad8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <span dir=3D"ltr">=
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jjllambias@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jjllambias@gm=
ail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><span class=3D"=
"><div><br></div></span><div>Can we talk about &quot;morphophonological syl=
lables&quot;? If yes, then assume this discussion is basically about morpho=
phonological syllables rather than phonological ones.=C2=A0</div></div></di=
v></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Actually, that&#39;s not quite tru=
e. We do need to identify valid onsets in order to determine words, but thi=
s discussion wasn&#39;t really about onsets.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div=
>I would have to agree that if the buffer vowel was real, all this discussi=
on would be mostly nonsensical. So I would say that the buffer vowel is bas=
ically a myth. None of the phonological constraints make much sense if ther=
e was a buffer vowel. I don&#39;t think I&#39;ve ever heard anyone speak lo=
jban with a buffer vowel, and it would probably sound very confusing. Witho=
ut a buffer vowel, it does make sense to limit the amount of consonant clus=
tering that can occur. If there was a buffer vowel, the morphophonological =
syllable could still be onset-nucleus-coda as now, but with the coda allowe=
d to contain as many consonants as you wanted. That&#39;s not how my dialec=
t of lojban works though.</div><div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes=
</div><div><br></div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;BPFK&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">bpfk-list=
+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:bpfk-list@googlegrou=
ps.com">bpfk-list@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list">ht=
tp://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list</a>.<br />
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/optout">http=
s://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>.<br />

--089e013c6c24b3f8050506453ad8--