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Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 14:08:06 -0300
Message-ID: <CAO7tK2fDcXnqUqqmEQeshfr885rNzXm_ubCCh9vMT1gg-VkKKA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [bpfk] camxes and syllabification in zi'evla
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On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 1:48 PM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> 2014-11-09 18:37 GMT+03:00 John Cowan <cowan@mercury.ccil.org>:
>
>>
>> I was actually thinking of something more radical:  replace all syllabic
>> consonants with yC throughout the language.  Ivan Derzhanski argued for
>> this long ago, and I now think he was correct: they reduce readability
>> and make things more awkward.  Syllabic consonants were introduced by
>> JCB, and I think we should have discarded them for Lojban; Loglan wound
>> up being more dependent on them, and writing them double.
>>
>
> If this change can be easily explained (e.g. "replace all syllabic
> consonants to {yr}") then it's okay. Existing texts will be assumed to be
> synonymous to these amended words just like {klamygau} is a full synonym of
> {klagau} (except the sounding and the text itself).
>

Doing that won't work in general for consonantal syllables in places other
than in the type-3 hyphen. For example the currently valid fu'ivla
"mutcmle" (mut,cm,le) would turn into a lujvo "mutcymle". Such fu'ivla are
rare, but I'm sure there are already a few in jbovlaste. Examples like this
that create actual possible words can only happen with Cm consonantal
syllables, because "m" is the only syllabic consonant that can start a CC
onset.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 1:48 PM, Gleki Arxokuna <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gleki.is.my.n=
ame@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><span class=
=3D"">2014-11-09 18:37 GMT+03:00 John Cowan <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:cowan@mercury.ccil.org" target=3D"_blank">cowan@mercury.ccil.org=
</a>&gt;</span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0=
 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span><br>
</span>I was actually thinking of something more radical:=C2=A0 replace all=
 syllabic<br>
consonants with yC throughout the language.=C2=A0 Ivan Derzhanski argued fo=
r<br>
this long ago, and I now think he was correct: they reduce readability<br>
and make things more awkward.=C2=A0 Syllabic consonants were introduced by<=
br>
JCB, and I think we should have discarded them for Lojban; Loglan wound<br>
up being more dependent on them, and writing them double.<br></blockquote><=
div><br></div></span><div>If this change can be easily explained (e.g. &quo=
t;replace all syllabic consonants to {yr}&quot;) then it&#39;s okay. Existi=
ng texts will be assumed to be synonymous to these amended words just like =
{klamygau} is a full synonym of {klagau} (except the sounding and the text =
itself).</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Doing that=
 won&#39;t work in general for consonantal syllables in places other than i=
n the type-3 hyphen. For example the currently valid fu&#39;ivla &quot;mutc=
mle&quot; (mut,cm,le) would turn into a lujvo &quot;mutcymle&quot;. Such fu=
&#39;ivla are rare, but I&#39;m sure there are already a few in jbovlaste. =
Examples like this that create actual possible words can only happen with C=
m consonantal syllables, because &quot;m&quot; is the only syllabic consona=
nt that can start a CC onset.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#3=
9;e xorxes</div><div><br></div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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